Octatrack AD/DA converters blind test

IMO the slight colouration of the OT only happens after recording, rather than with thru tracks or dir.

Had the exact same problem with my mk1 octa bough used 5 years ago. No problem with imported samples but anything i passed through the inputs sounded a bit muffled and flat.
Never thought that could be an early batch issue.
Is it something that is documented or at least knowned?

So now we want to know which version OT @Abhoth used? I don’t expect a mkI because I don’t hear the muffled and flat. Maybe it’s just my ears.

All the coloring people are talking about the Octatrack has very little to do with the converters, it’s more the built-in effects and gain staging affecting things. Even a fully open filter (which is default on a track) will color the sound slightly.

The converters are fine, I’ve measured them quite a bit and they are pretty much on par with an RME Fireface. :man_shrugging:

Maybe it would be more interesting to hear how different effect blocks affect the sound even on subtle settings.

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… Then there’s the whole aspects of pscyhoacoustics playing into this, which is very interesting.

A lot of the time when people complain about things like converters or op-amps etc sounding bad the playback is actually quite transparent. On the flip side, a lot of the time people praise things for sounding good, they actually color the sound more. Perception is very funny, and there are a lot of factors in play.

Interestingly, Elektron packaged the exact same reverb algorithm across five separate devices, yet people think it sounds different on each machine. The reason why is that each machine has a different kind of sound source (e.g synthesis vs sampling, analog vs digital etc) and a different way of interacting with the same reverb.

Things like the user interface will have an effect on perceived sound quality. Something that looks and feels great to use will likely be perceived as sounding a bit better. Making great sounding DSP algorithms is only half the battle - you need to package it in an attractive way too.

I think when you approach a piece of hardware you expect it to do something to your sound, so in the case of more transparent-sounding instruments I think there is a cognitive dissonance happening. You expected it to sound ‘better’ because it’s in this shiny box, but it sounds virtually the same. This is just my thoughts around it, don’t take it as facts at all - but there are many, many times where people have said that X has better Y than Z, and often the case has been the opposite.

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A while back a few of us did some generation loss experiments on the OT, feels relevant to link the thread here Testing the quality of re-sampling on the DT - #8 by knobgoblin

Fairly sure @sezare56 summarised those that do something even on ‘neutral’

The only one that was extreme enough to notice for myself is LOFI - if that’s in the slot the sound is noticeably coloured even with everything down.

But just learning that the filter does something subtle was useful because it means when I’m really bothered I can set the slot to NONE and just get one with it - and that’s where these investigations benefit even those with no technical curiosity because it can remove any lingering doubts, help establish work patterns and free up mental CPU so you can just get on

I’m even feeling that tiny bit of Digitakt envy about the ‘nice’ coloring slipping away as I type…

Great to hear though!

There is an old trick that studio engineers used to deal with fussy clients who would keep wanting changes, for example more reverb on the snare, or more bass, they’d have a unused knob on the mixer and adjust that, each time asking “how about that?” and each time slightly grimacing as if to say “we are really at the limit now” until the client would say “ahh yes, that is much better”.

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Love this. But five? Rytm, Four, Digitone, Digitakt, Model:Samples, Model:Cycles makes six right? Or are you dropping the Analogs for the Digitone Keys? I’m not trying to be pedantic here! Just genuinely interested in which ones have the exact same reverb :slight_smile:

And yes, I agree, people can tell themselves all sorts of (actually untrue) things once they get on a certain train of thought regarding audio.

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Bombshell

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I was just about to write exactly the same thing only focusing on live events because that is where my experience comes from. The mind is very powerful and is tricking us on so many levels. Personal preference will color anything, a true objective perspective is almost impossible to achieve.

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The Four has a slightly different reverb IIRC, and I didn’t count the Digitone Keys.

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Thats ok, @craig didn’t count the Analog Keys :joy:

(Proudly pedantic here :laughing:)

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Yes, this is so true. But how about when you really want to love the Octatrack, but the sound just doesn’t work for you? That’s reverse bias, and that was my case. I wasn’t trying to pull it apart, looking for low quality, but constantly trying to ignore, what it did to the sounds. I never read about others feeling the same, before researching, based on my frustration.

But, as mentioned above somewhere, I’m pretty sure it’s not the converters, but rather the processing of sound, when you start to mangle.

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One of my favorite subtle master sweeteners is the filter fully open, with resonance turned up to 10 o’clock.
Post compressor. :ok_hand:t3:

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So true, like all those chumps who spend thousands on modular gear, convincing themselves that their beeps and bloops are somehow so profound!

Oh wait…

@darenager has left the chat.
@darenager has checked himself into rehab.

:laughing:

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By “Master” are you referring to the track level, main output, or track src page amp vol?

When AD/DA converters first appeared many years ago (I think first manufactured by Sony) the head of a well known Hi-Fi turntable company stated that he would always be able to distinguish sound that had been passed through converters.

He was invited to take part in a blind test which he agreed to do.

The test basically consisted of a audio going straight from source (presumably a turntable) to amp and speakers with a by-pass switch, which when operated fed the source via AD and DA converters and then onto the amp and speakers.

The guys running the test expected a roughly 50/50 result, i.e. correct half of the time and incorrect half of the time meaning the difference was indistinguishable.

The actual result was that the guy taking the test was wrong most of the time. The people performing the test realised that the person taking the test could hear the bypass switch being operated so they changed it to be inaudible to the person taking the test.

When they repeated the test the result was as they expected.

I suspect this story can still be found somewhere on the internet.

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That’s some great trivia.