No, that’s why the brackets in my post above, ND1 midi is just trigs/gates. But it shouldn’t be ignored!
The beauty of both NDs is their response to velocity, truly alive…
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I’ve done some mapping setups with my iPad and MidiDesignerPro… But I’m kind of evolving my approach to using the AR/AK as more “sequenced” and using the ND2 as a live performance instrument. To me, even with it’s awesome synth engine, the sensitivity and responsiveness Nord got out of the trigger inputs and the voice parameters is the best, hands down, for synthesis based percussion. Thus, trying to hit the right spot on the iPad with sticks in my hands is “dangerous” and potentially very expensive! 
But speaking of how Nord killed it with the drum trigger inputs… I’d love to see Elektron do a spin off of the Rytm that maybe had less voices, but had a REALLLLLLLYYYY deep integration in the synth engine for live triggering. Most people look at me like I’m on crack when I make a case for MPE on a drum synth, but when you’re playing with something that can send pressure, aftertouch etc, you can create some really expressive playing with head mutes, slaps vs. taps, pitch bends, etc. etc.
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Absolutely! I’d love to see an Elektron drum box with trigger inputs capable of MPE.
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I liked my Nord Drum 3P so much, I got a second one. I play them exclusively with my Zendrum controller, which has 30 very sensitive triggers, so having 12 percussion voices really fills the thing out. I’m another non-fan of the pads because even though they’re cool enough, two devices takes up so much space I’ve left the boxes in storage for two years. I’m going to take them out again soon because they provide sounds/dynamic response you still can’t get elsewhere, but they’d be even more useful if I could play them with the same sensitivity as my Zendrum controller allows me to play 128-velocity layer multisample drums (BFD3). The 3P’s hand drum setting doesn’t come close to this kind of sensitivity.
So I recently had the brilliant idea to replace or remove the 3P’s rubber pads to play the thing with the kind of light, yet dynamically comprehensive, fingertip action I use on my Zendrums. My brilliant ideas have mostly just broken a lot of stuff, so before I risk one of my 3P’s to a hare-brained scheme, does anyone have experience with what’s under those rubber pads? Can the pads be removed reasonably easily without destroying them? I’d be willing to destroy the pads if I knew they could someday be replaced, but only if what’s underneath stands a reasonable chance of being finger-drummed and not being itself destroyed. I thought also that perhaps a much thinner pad might be useful for finger-drumming, while also protecting what’s underneath.
If this all results in an ugly mess, I don’t mind as long as the 3P is still usable as an external module for my Zendrum. I simply can’t play them with sticks because the ambient noise of practice pads (let alone a drum kit) is simply unacceptable where I live.
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Before you start butchering it have you tried adjusting the pad settings? There’s an option for hand drumming and sensitivity can be dialed in nicely via the sens,threshold and velocity curve settings.
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Yeah, I’ve tried. The 3P is able to set up hotter than any other pad-type device I’ve ever tried, but it’s still not close. The Korg Wavedrum was a nice one, but not enough voices, and still too much ambient noise for my situation. The 3P is a good hand-drummer, just not a finger-drummer, so I’ve always been happy to use my controllers from Zendrum.com. Even the lightest possible thwack on the 3P is be more than MIDI velocity 128 on my Zendrum setups, which I can play with a full range of dynamics down to velocity 7. I’m afraid I must butcher…
I’m not sure your butchery is going to take you where you want though - what is the zenndrum using to get it’s hit information? Im guessing it’s not piezo based as I assume the Norddrum is, if the dynamic range is as good as you say.
I believe the nords pads are glued on and can be peeled of (and reglued) but a thinner surface may not help with the fact they are piezo triggers - I’d guess thicker may actually be better if i understand your needs correctly.
You’re best bet might be to DIY a piezo trigger, plug it into the Chanel 1 input and try the drumming style you like with different surfaces. If you can get the range you want then do the lot. You might also read up on what the zenndrum is using under its hood to see if it’s just a different way of doing things.
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Had a look at the zendrum and it is piezo based so maybe start with whatever materials they use. Be aware piezos will trigger off flex from what they are mounted to so don’t attach to anything soft.
Realistically triggering the two units unbutchered from the device that does what you already want is probably the most sensible option.
Yeah, but suddenly I got a wild hair to mod the 3P directly, I mean, I’ve heard of people (very skilled) who successfully separated the pads from the module for portability.
The Zendrum is indeed the ideal external solution. As you discovered, it’s piezo-based. The device’s whole design is devoted singlemindedly to producing a full range of dynamics with zero crosstalk no matter how hard you bat the thing because most people coming from drums bat the thing.
Also–as I know from personal conversations with the inventor–the plastic trigger caps that sit above the piezos may look ordinary, but they’re a specific formula. I’ve tried alternative formulas that appear, feel, and weigh identical, and they suck. It took him trial and error to hit on the right formula. So you may be right about the 3P’s piezos not responding as desired until I find a proper replacement pad, which may be never.
My greediness in this case is due to the fact that two 3P’s take up all that studio space, so I’d like the option to strike them directly. It might also be fun to put one in your lap and finger-drum it while simultaneously wiggling the knobs, which is a pain while holding a Zendrum. I figure if I butcher it, I’ll be no worse off than before if I can still play the 3P with the external controller. “No worse off,” however, are historically my last words before I seriously break something.
Your best bet might be to keep your eyes out for a couple of ND2 modules. They do come up every now and then. I have the ND2 and the ND3P and love them both to bits. Love the expressivity of the ND3P pads and the Nord Pad. I have them on a high sensitivity with a low threshold (not quite the lowest) and usually play them in a hybrid finger+hand style. Have adjusted my technique to get a little more power through the fingers, but they’re so much more sensitive than any other pads that are also designed to be played with sticks.
Zendrum sounds like it has a great feel, but expensive! At least last time I checked. Would love to try one.
As I think someone else mentioned before, the MPC Live pads are more sensitive than the Nord Drums. You could try the Akai MPD2 series - the same sensitive pads as the Live. The two larger models let you adjust the sensitivity, but the default sensitivity is pretty good for the smaller one. I had an MPD218, felt great, but really what I’d like is to grab a Live at some point when I can afford it.
I understand all these considerations. My introduction t Elektron was the Analog Heat, which I bought for the ND2 + Pad, along with a couple of Eventide H9s shortly after. Good quality low/zero latency effects FTW!
Right, the ND2 has always been in the back of my mind, though never necessary: it’s only recently that I’ve developed this space issue, and I can’t buy from eBay very easily from my current location, so I’d like to max out my two 3Ps’ usefulness. Plus, it would just be fun to finger-drum them. In the MPC ONE thread, we discussed how suitable that model is for finger-drumming, and it would be cool to have the excuse to get one, but I need at least 3cm pads to be able to do rolls because otherwise you just can’t play high level grooves, just utility stuff. The MPC LIVE has the bigger pads, but I tried a friend’s once, and it had only mediocre playing response. He said it was set up hot, but maybe the sensitivity could be further tweaked because AccurateBeats’s recent YouTube demo makes it look very finger-drummable.
The Zendrum totally closes the door on this niche market, but the market is so small, it can’t be mass produced, so they price themselves out of most markets: too expensive for dabblers looking to have an extra controller in the studio, yet not a drum-y enough alternative for drummers, who must play with sticks, or they weep. Me, I’m right in the niche, and I have four Zendrums. I used to have a fifth one, but I sold it off as an irresponsible extravagance.
Would he sell you the trigger pads? If I were dead set on going that route I’d be asking him that, and if so cutting a piece of whatever wood he recommends mounting to the size of the lower part of the nd3, wiring the piezos through and mounting his plastic pads on the top.
If I wasn’t dead set the nd2 seems more appropriate - you could DIY something pad wise and hook up via ethernet too.
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I do have a bag full of this cheap part. They’re trigger caps: plastic, hollowed-out cylinders that squeeze down onto the assembly that contains the piezo. They’re held in place due to the tight fit over the silo-shaped assembly. The underside of the cap contacts the piezo element. I’d need flat versions of that same plastic to set down over the 3P’s piezos once I remove the rubber pads. Assuming I can remove those rubber pads cleanly, I’ll have to see what kind of surface you’re left to work with. Then I could experiment with different kinds of plastic pieces to put on the piezos, but I’d have to glue them down or something, which takes skills I don’t have. That’s why I’m hoping someone will have experience with what’s going on under the rubber pad.
Once I do this, I can post photos for advice if no one with hands on experience has responded before that.
My primary fear is that there won’t be an easy way to cleanly remove the pad. Clean disassembly is the skill that eludes me. Once the pads are off clean, it should be easy to try stuff out safely.
All I can add there is that when one of my pads failed I read somewhere they can be peeled off cleanly and reglued back into place (using a book as a weight if I remember right!). I thought about diy-ing but mine went out for repair under warranty - they would have had a pad off to fix though as the piezo failed.
Has anyone ever tried cutting the whole pad assembly off and making it a proper module that it should have been in the first place? Kinda like what people do with the Minibrute (Skinnybrute conversion)…
2-3 years ago, I saw someone specifically report that they did this separation. I can’t remember where, but it was certainly one of the expected forums. As I recall, the person was highly skilled with modding stuff, electronically and physically and equipped with a professional workshop.
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I’m more of a hacksaw-job-covered-up-with-molding-strip kinda guy, haha
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This an interesting discussion. Good luck to the OP in your experiments! As a percussionist I’ve long been interested in finding an expressive electronic drum instrument. I don’t own any Nord products but may pick up a 3P at some point. Also, some food for thought: Anyone interested in an extremely sensitive and expressive electronic percussion instrument should take a look at the Aframe electronic frame drum. I haven’t tried one, but it seems unsurpassed in the tiny field of electronic hand percussion.
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Have you gone through with this?
I’m still bummed out they didn’t release the desktop version
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Still no. My 3P’s were delivered to me out of storage to an area that’s now quarantined. I’m hoping I can finally get normal access next week.