Maybe this is a weird forum for this question, but does anyone know a good forum for nerding out on Western music theory, with people as smart and friendly as Elektronauts?
I am going to study for my Royal Conservatory Harmony 9 test, and would love a place for discussion.
Maybe this forum is the place, I only know need a few fellow weirdos who care about Leading Tones and Parallel Fifths and Suspensions, but likely there is a more focused place.
Chapeaux to @Shigginpit: or maybe this becomes a music theory thread. I don’t have any music theory questions at the moment, but I will say that I have been taught Secondary Dominants, Modal Borrowing, and Sonata-Allegro form this past quarter, and absolutely love them. I hope others chime in with any nerd music theory, well, anything.
You might be able to just take the question mark off of your title and change the word forum to “thread” because I guarantee that there are probably a few fine theory brains on elektronauts who want to nerd out with you
I know that some of the people on stack exchange are very knowledgeable but it’s not really a discussion forum and a lot of people on there seem to have a super negative attitude and towards very niche subjects, which is one reason it might not hurt to look for people on here as at least a preliminary attempt to connect with others.
I’m a completely untrained novice when it comes to theory, but I think the ideas are neat as heck.
In the end I believe if the music moves you or you had any fun making it in some way that’s what matters.
But here’s a fun thing I watched!
Almost all of anything I know about music theory has been from slowing absorbing bits from videos like these or breakdowns of music I’m really familiar with like video game music.
I won’t be able to go deep into it with you, but I’ll be checking in to pick up whatever others put down.
Well, I liked music class in middle school many decades ago, relearned the basics of reading staff in COVID, then signed up for the 5 unit 2 year musicianship sequence at the community college last year. Fairly intense but by quarter 4 you are doing very cool stuff!
Music theory understanding is integral to my projects. I make scrolling music-reading play-along videos for my students. The arrangements are rooted in melody and its harmonization. I just purchased an M8 tracker. Though the M8 isn’t polyphonic per track like my beloved Digitone, chords on a single track are nevertheless possible using FM operators and by using the Macrosynth. Understanding chords and their inversions allows me to work fairly quickly and deliberately. Without this knowledge, choosing chords on the M8 would be a huge pain in the ass.
Well, looks like I’m one of those weirdos. I teach harmony, form, counterpoint in colleges, so if you have any questions, please feel free to ask, either here or in private messages. If I can’t help, I may be able to ask someone who can. Cheers!
I have learned classical/Western music theory for years as a kid.
Self learned chords and soloing on the guitar with such basis.
But never dig much into harmonization. I know the circle of fifth, but that’s about it.
I can read scores, but it’s such a chore.
Do you guys have some good/simple enough recommendations about the subject, either as video tutorials or books?
About six years ago, tired of writing too many anti folks songs with the same chords, I started taking in person theory lessons at Morley College here in London. Five years later this has moved into counterpoint classes and now musicianship (sight singing, ear training etc). Also started taking proper piano lessons, and over the last two years drum kit classes to improve my rythmns.
I’ve become a better musician by a huge amount but it’s also made composing new music rather than just improvising a lot harder. While I used to churn out EPs I now doodle and then discard because I’m a lot more critical and have a lot more options. I’m slowly getting back into actually putting out music but I still don’t have any idea of what that music will sound like.
The M8 tracker could be a really good composition / counterpoint tool but unlike renoise where you could see things next to each other I struggle jumping in and out and not getting an overview for harmonies / counterpoint. Lots of short term memory required.
I studied RCM piano to Grade 8, and sang in choirs up to high school, so my harmony knowledge is more on the practical side. My daughter studied violin and piano to Grade 10, which meant she had to take Harmony 9 (and maybe Harmony and Counterpoint 10, I can’t remember for sure). I would take her to her lessons, and sit there in the same room on my laptop, with one ear open, but I rapidly got outpaced. She was quite good at it, and the teacher had hoped she would win the provincial silver medal, but she didn’t care enough, and made sloppy mistakes to get out of the exam way early (still earning the credit, not that it mattered in the long run).
Anyway, she would be happy to nerd out with you, but she’s not here, only me, and I can’t do it, really. Sorry, but I did want to express sympathy and wish you well. It can be fascinating.
For those who are asking for learning materials, may I recommend Eric Taylor’s books, “The AB Guide To Music Theory”, parts I and II. They do not go very deep into harmony, but offer good, broad, general coverage of many topics.
Open Music Theory is a great resource. There’s a section on popular music, which might appeal to those who are less interested in studying classical or jazz – all quite different paradigms.
Oh, and musictheory.net is good for interactive lessons, exercises and tools. This might be a good place to start. Their iOS app Tenuto is worth a look, too. I sometimes fire it up for a bit of theory practice when I have a spare minute.
@Udoyothing For fundamentals in theory—pitches, clefs, scales, intervals, etc. I’d be the bad person to recommend anything to you, since I don’t have experience teaching that at all. What @plragde suggested above could be could be very good for beginning / intermediate levels, but I’m not familiar with it much. You have to check it out.
If you’re looking to start on harmony, assuming that the fundamentals are strong already, then there’ll be many books suitable. There’s a book by Thomas Benjamin called Techniques and Materials of Music or something like that. It’s not the best but it covers many important concepts in a comparatively concise way. It lacks explanation “why” things are done that way, which I don’t like, but for undergrad students who want to grasp the concepts first to just being able to do things now, it’s quite OK, always assuming of course that they will want to find out the reasons later. The one that I really like is the archaic Schoenberg’s Theory of Harmony. Yes, the Schoenberg who composed those atonal pieces. Turned out he’s excellent composer in the Wagnerian style too! This one tries to find all reasons why tonal music is as it is, and coming from the seminal composer, it’s very, very compelling. It’s a tough reading though, like reading a philosophical book. So I rarely recommend it unless the students show real potentials and dedication to music.
If you’re starting out on theory with the goal to understand music and improve composing skills, arranging skills, I’d suggest talking to available teachers and find out which one can show you logical reasons in their explanation of theory. Ask them why parallel 5th is not recommended when writing in the common practice style, for example. If they say it’s because parallel 5th sounds bad, that’s not a good explanation and you should find someone else. Ask them how their theories can help explaining pop / hiphop/ trip hop or jazz music today, if they say those use different theories, find another teacher instead. A good music theory is like a good scientific theory, it should be able to cope with a variety of music (within reason, of course!) It doesn’t look correct if you need a small theory for this thing and another minor one for that different thing. When you end up with many conflicting theories, something’s wrong in understanding music. Styles are very well different, and the goal of each genre might as well be different, but a good theory would be able to explain that that is exactly why the same theory works across genres—the goals are different, so they approach the theory differently and use it differently. Things like that. Damn! This is a long boring reading. I’ll stop now!!
I’m very partial to any explanation that covers music of our time, especially pop music. While some theories look down on the pop culture, things that they can’t answer is why it works with many people if it’s so bad. And let’s face it, no matter how great Haydn was, that music is very ancient and outdated. If you can learn to love Haydn’s music but hate pop music of the 70s, then likely something is wrong with you.
I look at Seth Monahan’s channel and it’s quite good. The guy certainly spent some serious time creating these videos, trying to explain some difficult concepts. There are some strange sequences where difficult chromatic chords are introduced before more simpler diatonic harmony, but I didn’t have a chance to really watch all videos, and I’d guess he probably has some reasons to do so. You can approach theories from different angles anyway, and in the end you’d assimilate these fragments in a way that most suit you.
I have no idea what Royal Conservatory Harmony 9 test covers. But if you have old tests, publications containing tests, or if you have done some exercises on their workbooks or something like that and would like a second opinion, I’d be very happy to look at it. Just message me.
I’ve had a long relationship with music theory, first classical in school, then studying jazz piano on my own…
I don’t know any music theory forums (maybe on reddit??), but I’d bet some of the highest quality talk would be on the discord-type boards for various kinds of piano lessons that are tied to piano and theory YouTube channels…
Judging by your post, I might recommend Michael Keithson’s channel (how to use half-diminished chords; chromatic mediants; …secondary dominants), the Open Studio (one of several channels that do the Barry Harris jazz piano method), and maybe Noah Kellman (another jazz-oriented theory channel with some good neo-soul tips). All three have applicability beyond jazz and piano, imo.
I posted in another thread some time ago. Berklee’s YouTube channel is great. Its obviously not a full course or anything like that. You just get basics but incredibly helpful. I learned a lot of tips and tricks that’s suitable for my purpose (I am not writing symphonic pieces ) . They also have DAW or recording related videos too.
Their Harmony Games course is their most user friendly yet, on the topic of taking a step or two out of the safe, yet boring harmonic pond of major and minor triad chords on the piano. In typical Adam Maness fashion, you don’t just get fed some dry theory and that’s all. You’re expected to jam along with Adam and his backing band, to put the theory to work so that it stays in your brain longer.
I bought Jameson Nathan Jones’ course Harmony Concepts for Artists and have been working through it in parallel with Harmony Games. He has a Black Friday sale on his courses.
I teach harmony, form, counterpoint in colleges, so if you have any questions, please feel free to ask, either here or in private messages. If I can’t help, I may be able to ask someone who can. Cheers! 
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