ah interesting - so in that case (a Touch) it’s even happening in the MPC Application context, not just standalone. Wow, feeling your pain.
you are making pretty good points and observations… however… my sets usually contain very long samples from 30 seconds to 3 to4 minutes so the name is up for quite a long time when saving… (dunno if that matters, but all my content is sampled into the device and not transferred, so all samples are ‘native’)
if I just change the sequencer or scoot a few notes around and don’t change the samples, saving is done in an instant… if I alter one of the samples (trim them a bit), only one sample displays for a longer period in the saving dialogue and the other’s seem to get skipped… if I change just 2 samples… 2 names pop up for a bit longer… and so forth…
maybe I just wish you are not right as this would be quite troublesome indeed. but i cant see the behaviour you are seeing
what you are DEF right about though is that even if changing slices (ie. no audio changes), the whole sample seems to get written again… this seems unnecessary indeed.
as you can tell, I haven’t read all the recent posts here fully and maybe that’s what you mean in the first place, i just can’t confirm that all sample are being written all the time
I have the same experiences as you. This is a mystery…
I don’t tend to slice samples much. Might be why I don’t seem to be hitting this problem…?
Incidentally, each of the 128 samples in the drum program that I’m using in this particular project, just so happens to be a sample-chain unto itself: each is comprised of 4 hits, that I’ve saved with non-destructive slices, and I have each slice mapped respectively to the 4 velocity layers per pad.
That said, I never change or move those slice points, so…
I’m clearly just grasping at straws here (smirk).
I just got the following email from the faceless, but modishly named “inMusic”…
Yep, because I’ve got all the time in the world for this runaround, right? Grrr! So, we’re skipping the “support” part, and jumping straight to the “customer satisfaction” survey. Oh, it’s on now! Time to call in some favours, find an unlisted number, and call someone on the Akai team at home. Perhaps I’ll wait till 5a.m.
My favourite part of the email is the link back to the page from which I first contacted them.
Serenity now, serenity now, serenity now…
I love when they recommend to talk to the smiley face in the corner of the software (to submit bugs etc)… infuriating on a bad day
Okay, I just narrowed down what’s causing the gratuitous overwriting of my project files, and figured out why it might not be affecting some of you: i.e. it seems to be a direct result of saving/resaving a program before resaving the project, regardless of whether or not any changes have been made to that program or the project itself. And it will happen, repeatedly, even without rebooting the MPC or reloading the project, as long as you have saved/resaved a program first.
In other words, if/when you save/resave any program within a project, even if no changes have been made to that program, and you then resave the project, the MPC will proceed to overwrite all the samples in the project folder, even if no changes have been made at the project level. It’s also worth noting that there seems to be no way to resave a program either, without the MPC overwriting all the samples in the program folder; and again, this happens every time, even if no changes have been made to that program. In both cases, the result is that the files in the program/project folders gradually become more and more degraded with every save.
If any of you, kind folks, would like to confirm this on your MPC’s, I would be much obliged.
At any rate, I’ve now spoken on the phone with a tech at Akai (who was very helpful, by the way), and he agreed, pending some tests of his own, that this behaviour is not optimal, and that it very likely could result in cumulative file corruption, as I’ve experienced. So, assuming that this is not just a problem with my MPC (which doesn’t seem to be the case), sufficed to say, this affects all of us significantly. It’s definitely something to be aware of, at very least, if you don’t want your samples degrading over time.
We may actually be getting somewhere here… (fingers crossed).
I confirm I can reproduce the problematic behavior by first saving a program: when saving the program, samples are collected, but they’re collected again when saving the project. Nice find, @JohntheSavage
I sold mine after some month
Love the sound, love the pads
Made good music with it
But the instrument doesnt amaze me
Back on A4 ar
With Pioneer djm 450
We’re lucky to have you here too John!Nice find…I’ll have to check it…Never had to save/resave a program…
Ya, I’m working with really large programs - kind of like projects unto themselves - wherein it can take days or even weeks, and therefore countless resaves, just to finish the program, never mind the project. Hence why I’ve been running into this issue more than most.
Regardless, this is a pretty serious oversight in the MPC’s file structure because, no matter what, whenever you resave a program, you’re unwittingly making a copy of copy of your samples (even if all you did was turn down your snare, or tweak an FX send, or what have you); and, in turn, that seems to force the project to do the same, effectively making a copy of a copy a copy, etc. Over time, this repeated (and unnecessary) overwriting of the sample files is causing data corruption… Not good!
So, this needs to be fixed at the program level first. Otherwise, the project seems to save only what has been changed since the last save, as you’d expect; until something gets changed (and subsequently resaved) at the program level, which then causes this ripple effect.
For now, I’m just thankful that I don’t have a broken MPC or a completely corrupt project. I mean, push come to shove, I’ve still got uncorrupted copies of all my samples, so I can swap them out for the corrupt ones, resave the program and the project one last time, and theoretically everything should be fine. What a pain in the ass though (sigh).
Anyway, thank all y’all for your help, eh! I’ll keep you posted when I hear back from Akai…
Did you keep maschine MKIII or did you sell that too? I have a MKIII on it’s way. Those pads felt good to the touch
if i get what your are saying… you believe there isn’t some sort of bug with the live os and that the file “degradation” is actually due to rewriting of edited samples?
are we talking about digital systems here or vhs cassettes? how could that happen, just a careless misplacing of a 1 or 0 here and there? is this the case when working with images too? i like to use procreate on my ipad and whenever i re-save my work it’ll overwrite the whole file. same when working with photos. are these files slowing going to be bit crunched? from my limited understanding, bad drive sectors are what will cause corrupted files or a os bug.
just asking… i’m curious
overwriting a file in itself is not dangerous per se… I am pretty sure this specific issue is partially caused by the fact that the MPC OS (in standalone) converts all audio to 32bit floating point.
But glad to hear you identified the issue! I am sure Akai will see how dangerous this can potentially be and a fix will be forthcoming…
For now, you can avoid triggering this bug if you do any other editing operation to the project than saving a program, before saving the whole project? Am I getting this right? So basically all you need to do is to nudge, say, the sequence BPM up and down one BPM vefore hitting save to prevent this resaving issue from manifesting?
That could indeed explain why I, for one, haven’t hit the issue.
Sold it all
Its all cool, but not for me
Mostly because i dont like scratching the surface and realizing i dont have the time to internalise the new process
Elektron gives me enough to explorer, i already understand the Elektrons but slowly i know more about sound design and performance possibilities
maschine mk3 is great, I wish it was standalone but I can completely deal with it for the amount I get from it. came from MPCs before too. its a bit different but if youv’e got some decent plugins you’re gonna love it
I already have a maschine studio, but now that my MPD232 is dying on me I need a spare maschine / pad controller for my other jam room. With all the sounds of komplete 12 CE i think I am ready to play my hearts content this weekend.
what about maschine and a small surface tablet? quasi-standalone