Model:Cycles won't turn on after powerbank problem

[Noluxtime]

Hello Elektronauts!
I am facing a major issue with my Modern:Cycles and I would like to get some help!

My only issue with the device was that if I moved the power connector the device would power down.
Now to the issue at hand, three days ago I powered my Model:Cycles using the rear PowerHandle connector using a
Sandberg 420-23 powerbank (20000mAh/74wH)
I used the DC out option which reads 12V/4.2 A.
When I connected it at home everything worked fine. Once I tried it at the beach my powerbank kept powering down even though it was full. After several attempts the Model:Cycles stopped powering up. I tried using the regular EleKtron power supply directly to a socket and the synth is unresponsive.

I cannot stress enough how freaking sad I am, I was looking forward working on my sequences for the whole summer and now my main synth isn’t working. I am situated in Greece and my local distributor will be able to fix it at the end of August. EleKtron was quick to respond and even proposed fixing the synth for free but sending it to Sweden and getting it back will take ages.

Has anyone faced a similar problem?

Kind regards,
Mike

[Scyphozoa]

@Noluxtime

I used the DC out option which reads 12V/4.2 A.

• Power inlet: Center positive 3.5 × 1.35 mm barrel jack, 5V DC, 1A
• Battery In: Center positive 5.5 × 2.1 barrel jack, 4–10V DC

Well, there’s your problem.

Power supplies/batteries can exceed amperage ratings, because a device should only draw what it needs.
E.g. using a 5V 1.5A power supply in place of 5V 1A.

You cannot safely exceed voltage ratings, and it’s likely to fry something.
Ideally something inconsequential like a fuse.

Hopefully it will be a swift repair.

[comradecry]

Thats a shame! Good to know because i was considering getting that model of powerbank too.
usb-c PD is in theory a safer route for portable power, if the PD adapter fails it should just shut down and not send any power into a device down the line.

I havent had that problem myself. Hope you can get it fixed/replaced soon! Please be careful with non standart power options, and if possible run tests on other devices that accept the same voltage.

[Scyphozoa]

You don’t even need USB-PD for the Model: Cycles, since it can run on 5V 1A (standard USB power).
You just need an adapter to the right size of barrel connector.

You could probably use a 9V PD cable if you wanted, but I’m not sure there would be any benefit.
I expect the Cycles converts it all to 5V internally, rather than a higher voltage giving you more headroom (as you might see with analog gear).

I do wish it ran on USB power directly, rather than using a barrel connector though.
If they released an updated model that replaced the Micro USB port with a Type-C connection that can handle power/audio/midi, I’d buy one right away.

[Leonsarmiento]

I have run my M:C and M:S always using USB power banks, never used the wall plug power adaptors.

USB A will never fry your M:C since it´s designed to give you a maximum of 5V at 900 mA for 4.5W total.

I just use these to plug ANY USB (Power Bank, Laptop ports, JBL speaker charging port, even airplane USB ports) to power these devices, never any problem:

Amazon.com: SIOCEN 3-Pack 4ft USB 2.0 A Type Male to DC 5.5 x 2.1mm DC 5V Power...

[comradecry]

@Scyphozoa

You could probably use a 9V PD cable if you wanted, but I’m not sure there would be any benefit.
I expect the Cycles converts it all to 5V internally, rather than a higher voltage giving you more headroom (as you might see with analog gear).

exceeding voltage is what bricked the unit in the first place, please dont exceed voltage.

and yeah for 5v devices you dont need PD adapters, physical usb to dc barrel will do. Just make extra sure that polarity is correct.

[Scyphozoa]

@comradecry

exceeding voltage is what bricked the unit in the first place, please dont exceed voltage.

It’s rated for 4–10V via the battery-in connector (the side port).
But as I said: I doubt there’s any benefit to it. If anything, it’s probably less efficient.

[shigginpit]

most average carbon resistors have a tolerance of 20% which with a max rating of 10 could possibly push it out to 12v, very specific tolerances are more expensive to manufacture and therefore cost more to use so most non essential circuits will use the bare minimum. Similarly, most average capacitors are manufactured with a tolerance of 20% except when precision is very important. It’s possible the thing blew up, but based on tolerances it’s also possible that it didn’t.

edit: regarding the following statements, per thermionic, there may simply be an issue with a poor fit between the factory dc jack and barrel supply, could have nothing to do with the inability to power on

The original issue with the unit powering down when the power connector was moved indicates the power input may have been damaged prior to any of this. Was the unit dropped or accidentally pushed hard up against a wall with the power connector still inserted? Did anything happen when you took it out of the house or did you travel with it in a bag, with the power plug still inserted? It’s possible there is physical damage to the plug socket.

Or, as was mentioned, it’s possible the voltage exceeded the tolerance range and something got fried. There are too many variables to casually troubleshoot the issue. First thing you need to do is use your nose, smell the area around the plug in, does it smell of burnt plastic or have an odor of burned electronics components? next visually inspect the plug area with a bright light, like your phone flashlight, do you see anything loose? if you gently try and move the center pin of the DC in charge port (like gently, using a pen cap or something) does the center pin move? can you see the metal piece along the side when you look into it, the part that should be touching the sleeve of the barrel jack?

If everything looks physically ok, and there is no burnt smell, if you have verified your normal wall power supply has the correct size barrel and is the original power supply and you run out of troubleshooting options, I think it’s smart to buy a volca for the summer and send your model cycles to elektron for repair, you probably won’t get much further without someone who can better assess the situation.

If you DO smell burnt smell, or something is physically moving in the charger area, that indicates damage.

[Noluxtime]

Firstly thanks everyone for the replies it helps to know all these information.
I bought the unit secondhand and noticed right away the issue with the connector.
Bear in mind that I used the rear powerhandle connector to power the device and not the regular back port. I didn’t use a USB connector simply because I couldn’t find one before leaving for vacation.
I always move the device around using a semi-hard case. I will troubleshoot all the issues you mentioned.
Judging by the answer from EleKtron they were swift to give me a free fix mainly due to the issue with the connector pre-existing my use of the powerbank.

My biggest question is am I looking at an easy fix or there is a possibility my unit is done for?

I made a whole album using M:C I freaking love this thing!

[shigginpit]

information only relevant if factory power handle was used

When you say the rear power handle connector, do you mean a thing that looks like this on top?

This is an item known to have problems, there was a recall by the factory to take back all of this kind of power unit because of some problems in the production. If they assume the power handle caused some problem before you purchased the cycles, they may fix or replace the entire machine.

If you only used the connection port and not the handle itself, that shouldn’t contribute any further to the issue one way or the other, only if it was severely overpowered.

It’s essentially not possible to make a good guess as to how easy it is to fix so I would rather not try. If you have songs on the machine, I think they may be lost, or maybe not, I would assume the worst situation only because I would not want to disappoint you if the worst comes to be true. If they’ve already stated they will take care of repair or replacement as a part of the warranty, I believe you will ultimately receive a working condition unit but amount of time or repair vs replace, I think it’s also too difficult to make a guess. I don’t mind giving opinions about things where opinion counts, but in matters of yes or no, guessing doesn’t really help anyone.

I hope it all works out for you, make sure to smell it for any burning plastic smell, if it doesn’t have any odor there’s a better chance that a simpler repair is possible. Good luck.

[bibenu]

@Scyphozoa

You don’t even need USB-PD for the Model: Cycles, since it can run on 5V 1A (standard USB power).
You just need an adapter to the right size of barrel connector.

For future reference, not only do you not need the PD power supply, the PD feature simply will not work with a barrel connector. The PD feature relies on the power supply and the device negotiating the right voltage, a barrel connector only has two contacts (ground and supply) there are no connectors for negotiation.

Best of luck with your problems @Noluxtime

[porkloin]

I’m assuming OP means that they used the port that was built-in to the upper-left corner of the device for the battery handle to use. It’s actually just another dc barrel plug. The issues with the battery handle were internal to the battery handle itself, not the plug, so using that plug should be safe. When I had a M:C I actually used the port a ton for connecting my ripcord-style USB-to-DC cable.

[shigginpit]

word. just my misunderstanding then, no power handle - just utilizing the port for the power handle. makes sense.

[thermionic]

@shigginpit

The original issue with the unit powering down when the power connector was moved indicates the power input may have been damaged prior to any of this.

There is too much “wiggle room” with the chosen barrel and receptacle, I had that happen with two separate OEM supplies.

It’s just not a great design for placing on your lap or couch, there should have been more QA on that use case instead of stable on the workbench.

[shigginpit]

why do I suddenly feel like I dodged a bullet by suppressing those urges I had to try a m:c recently?

[thermionic]

It’s still fun. But that choice frustrates me with both M:C and M:S, i’m sure both were a learning experience.

[Leonsarmiento]

Can we appreciate that the Models are the only devices (that I know) to offer you two different size and location for DC plugs, and even if you fry one perhaps can still use the other?

It’s so basic, bare bones yet powerful device, designed to travel around. To me is like those Land Rover that can take you places and you can even hand crank to start if needed.

[Scyphozoa]

@bibenu

For future reference, not only do you not need the PD power supply, the PD feature simply will not work with a barrel connector. The PD feature relies on the power supply and the device negotiating the right voltage, a barrel connector only has two contacts (ground and supply) there are no connectors for negotiation.

There are adapters now that can trigger the desired PD voltage and output it over a barrel connector.

These “birdcord” brand adapters are more expensive, but there are inexpensive generic options too.
They’re useful if your power bank supports 12V over PD and you want to power something like a Syntakt for example

Probably no benefit using a 9V PD adapter here vs a standard 5V USB adapter.

[Leonsarmiento]

These things are great. I got a couple of Ankers (20K and 10K) and a bunch of those 5v , 9v +/- and 9v-/+, at multiple barrel sizes for 10 or 20 USD for 10 or so cables and never used wall plugs again.

I power the Models, Volcas, A Monologue, a Mini mixer… Even stompboxes with those USB to DC cables.

[bibenu]

Yep, I didn’t mean to say it wasn’t possible to connect a PD power supply to a barrel connector, just that it couldn’t negotiate the voltage, by the nature of the barrel connector they must supply a fixed voltage (one connector per voltage) whereas with a usb-c connector, one connector will work with many voltages.