Mixer connection type... Advice please

The Lounge
#1

Hello to all,

I am reaching the max number of channels on my mixer.
So far, I had a Mackie 1402 VLZ (old model).

I am now looking at upgrading.

My question is the following:
I have DT, Deepmind 12 and MiniNova all connected to a stereo line IN pair.
I have 4 Volcas and MicroFreak connected each to a single dedicated instrument input with gain adjustment (no need for the Volcas to output on stereo and MicroFreak has a single TRS jack).
My other synths (the ones connected to 3 out of the 4 stereo pairs available) have a very low output: MiniNova and Deepmind have actually the +4dB gain switch engaged as the output level is very low (as opposed to DT which has to be tamed down).

The last of the stereo pairs being used as a FX return.

What is the consensus (if any) regarding this: should I have the Deepmind 12 and MiniNova on 2 instrument channels each with dedicated gain and hard pan L/R?

That would definitely orientate my future choice of mixer.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated :slight_smile:

[FR] Le Bistrot Francophone Intersidéral
#2

If you’ve got stereo outputs on your synths it would make sense to connect L&R and pan them. I’m thinking if the DeepMind has stereo FX you’re not gonna get the full effect if you’re only using a mono output. I’d say if you can it’s always better to have just one instrument per input (either mono or stereo) so you’ve got ultimate control and flexibility during tracking/mixdown. I do get that this means you need a mixer with more channels. It’s a trade off I guess. Having external inputs like the Elektron gear has is really handy but in my book it’s always preferable to go direct into the desk. Those inputs are great in a pinch, for live stuff or when you’re just chilling on the sofa with a couple of synths.

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#3

Depending on you’re set up and budget have you thought about a mixer and stagebox (if you’re considering digital)? You might be able to have a smallish footprint mixer console then have an 8 or 16 input stagebox in your rack. Might help in a tight environment?

#4

@Bunker
Thanks a lot for the detailed information :slight_smile:
For instance, apart from the Volca FM whose chorus requires stereo, the Volca Keys, Bass and Kick have their Left channel out going into a single input.
MicroFreak has a single TRS out.

#5

Yip, I guess it’s always a trade off. Especially when some stuff has a stereo output and some has mono only. In fact some ‘stereo’ outputs are nothing more than dual mono (especially on some older gear). My rule of thumb would be if you’ve got two outputs use them both!:slightly_smiling_face:

Some stuff like a lot of the DSI synths have a stereo architecture; in other words you really need to use both outputs as the filters and amps are stereo and many patches rely on panning and positioning within the stereo field. The Evolver even has a sticker on it TELLING you to use it in stereo! :joy:

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#6

That does make sense indeed.
Now mixer’s choice…
Never ends :slight_smile: But that is also why we are in this for…

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#7

I suppose budget, and maybe to a greater degree, space will be your governing factors. That’s why I thought about the stagebox idea.

#8

Have you tried using balanced (TRS) cables from your Deepmind to your mixer?
Might give you a hotter signal than unbalanced.

#9

@Bunker
As ever, budget and space are indeed a factor.
Though one will always find space… Money is another matter :slight_smile:
I like the idea of an analog mixer.
A digital one also hahaha!!!

@DampSquid
I am actually using TRS…

Was looking at MixWizard, 1604, 22MTK…

Already have a MOTU ULTRALITE MK3 with one set of Input coming from my Mackie 1402.
Another set used as a return FX from DAW.
Another as an input from my MODEL1.

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#10

Before you buy a mixer, check which gear you use less. I bet you don’t use everything each time you play.
There might be some redundancy between e.g. two Volca, so that you can just plug unplug the jack to the right gear…

Also think about the fear you might be dreaming of… maybe today’s needs are pretty specific and won’t be the same in the future.

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#11

Other option is to use a sub-mixer next to your Mackie. Put the extra sources on it and run its output into a stereo channel of the Mackie. You ll have to think about which send fx goes on which mixer (unless using another submixer merging their input signals ;)).

#12

Is this switch on the mixer or the synths? If on the mixer you actually want this off cause that probably sets it to expect a higher amplitude signal (+4dBu standard). In off position it probably would expect -10dBV signals, meaning it will add more gain.

#13

That’s correct. This is why I have the 4 Volcas on same MIDI channel. I rarely need to have them sync/play all at the same time.
I am not a big fan (maybe I should turn into one) of plugging/unplugging cables.
The way I work lets me go with or without a DAW without constraints (not so many…).
All hardware go into Mackie then:
Mackie main out to MOTU in 3/4
Mackie Alt/Out to DT in
MOTU in 5/6 as soft send FX for MODEL1
MODEL1 Main out 2 to MOTU 7/8

Just thinking out loud trying to see whether a second hand analog board or patchbay… Or working with what I have without the hassle of plugging/unplugging

Appreciate the feedback though. Wise :slightly_smiling_face:

#14

If you have room, a large analog mixer costs next to nothing these days. And the imidiacy of having everything at your fingertips at all times is wonderfull. And if you get a mixer with a decent ammount of bus’es and Aux’s you an get a really flexible setup. Getting a mixer again has done more for flexibility and productivity than the latest synth purchases have.

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#15

Switches on the mixer.
My bad :slight_smile:
Switch is actually on -10 for both Deepmind and Nova.
DT also is on -10
Difference of output level between DT and Nova/Deepmind is obvious.

#16

I hear what you say about not needing to be tied to the DAW just to have a mess or even test a bit of gear etc. That’s the beauty of an analogue desk, not to mention the immediacy of having control of your EQ and faders etc. They tend to be very flexible in terms of routing. If you’ve got the space something like a used Mackie 8 bus or one of the cheaper Behringer copies (MX8000/9000) would gibe you plenty of options. I used a Tascam M2524 for years. Not the most pristine sound quality but it was the best I could afford at the time! Great compact 24-8-2 desk with 8 subgroups and the ability to flip input and tape returns per channel so you get 48 inputs at Mixdown. It’s prob around 1000mm wide.

24 channels might sound excessive but you’d be surprised how quickly channels get eaten up, especially with stereo inputs and returns. These desks were aimed at the project studio market in the 80’s/90’s and represent good value on the second hand market, especially some of the ‘premium brand’ desks from Allen & Heath, Soundcraft even Soundtracs. As always you get what you pay for. 24ch is a bit of a threshold size; lower channel count desks tend to have reduced functionality (but not always). I’d be looking for inserts on channels, at least two auxes and hopefully direct outs on a smaller desk. Most 24ch desks would have this and more auxes etc. I’m talking about second hand older desks here, you’d need to check functionality for new desks. I was in the market myself fairly recently and I noticed that many new analogue desks are sacrificing inserts and aux busses, especially as many have an interface built in. FWIW I went the whole hog and invested in a PreSonus StudioLive. I was already using their Studio One DAW plus I liked the fact that it’s a mixer in the traditional sense as well as being a Control surface for my DAW. The I/o is really flexible too as it’s got a matrix thing going on where you can send anything anywhere. I’m not saying that’s the way you should go, just sharing my experience.

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