Managing excess bass / low end from Rytm Mk2

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#1

I like my Rytm Mk2. But it gives off so much low end thickness. Which is always somewhat of a problem area for me, keeping compositions/mixes from getting too full and muddy. Or like fellow ‘naut @tsutek wrote somewhere else:

Curious how others here manage that?

  • My Rytm runs into an OT, so I could also lowcut there by using the OT filter base amount. That would apply to all Rytms tracks then, but maybe no problem if cutting just frequencies below for example the 20/127 amount point of OTs filter-base?
  • Do people here use Rytms track filters to lowcut? or OTs filter to cut some low end?
  • In OT would you use -12 or -24 high pass filter to cut the low end? I feel like they not only differ in the amount of cutoff but also how they peak/boost at the cutoff point or not?
  • Or do you use other tricks?
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#2

Yes. Though i try to solve it with other synthesis parameters whenever possible, and keep the filter for more creative use. There s also a filter mode (notch or peak?) that can be used as a 1-band eq, in case low cut is too much.

Wish the AR had a master EQ like the MD…

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#3

Same approach here as @dtr. I try to do as much bass taming as I can with synth parameters in the hope that the filter can be used for something more fun/ weird. When needed, I tend to use the hpf or, less commonly, the notch filter for bass management. Watch your resonance too.
Also, you can always try to cut bass out of other tracks to free up low end headroom. Even if it’s hard to hear individually the tiny bit of low end in your hats, snare, cowbell, or whatever all add up and give less room in the mix for your bassy instrument tracks.
For whatever it’s worth I’m using the mk1 AR (and I’m fairly new to it) but this should still apply to the mk2.

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#4

No it’s great to hear your approach either way. And they improved low end in the Mk2 but that might actually mean there’s even more low end to take into consideration in Mk2

#5

This indeed seems to be the other factor that needs to taken into consideration most

#6

Too much low end in the MK2 - it does not fill well in a mix

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#7

This is exactly why I miss the filter from the MD and OT in the AR. You could use the hi pass to manage bass, and the lowpass for creative use. If Elektron could add a simple 1 knob/parameter hi pass filter to each synth engine, this could be solved easily without modifying the existing filter, which is actually good for creative use. Sucks to have to use it in hi pass mode just to manage bass.

#8

Or like the DN second filter page, every Elektron should basically have that.

Added: They probably didn’t because it would mess with the analog signal path? What if this would be introduced befóre it would hit the actual one analog multimode filter? The use value of it would trump the “full analog” for me personally, but I don’t know if that’s easier said then done in the furthermore analog domain…

#9

Adding such things after release is an option for digital synths, not for analog ones… (unless they ve got unused circuits in there, which is highly unlikely)

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#10

I realize that. But, it could be a digital hi pass for all I care. The effects are digital. I would think a simple hi pass filter wouldn’t take up that much DSP. And really, it would only need to be on the more bass oriented synth engines, like the kicks and toms. To be honest, the answer to this problem has been built into the box from day one. Use the individual outputs and route sounds to a mixer for proper EQing. :+1:

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#11

Delay and reverb are send fx. Eq is insert. Not quite the same in terms of signal routing.

Compressor and overdrive are insert and analog.

Individual outs, yes of course, but this discussion is for the ones mixing on small (DJ) mixers, OTs etc and want to make the most of just the stereo main outs :slight_smile:

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#12

For me it usually comes down to careful drum programming and heavy use of the auto amp decay length, release at <10 and trial and error with the note length. I make mostly non-4-on-the-floor dance music with the thing, so I treat the low end as kind of a sacred ground ripe for p-lock conversations between kicks and bass. Really comes down to me making sure there is a clear distinction in frequency ranges between my kick and baseline during the sound design phase, and when programming to either have the two sounds “choke” each other, or just being attentive to not have them trigger too close to each other as to muddy the low end. It’s really easy, and tempting, to make everything booming on the machine; the toms especially in isolation seem to need more low end then they do in a mix. Just using restraint, or conditioning my samples especially for my rytm before sending them in, really helps. Things like cutting the low end from a kick sample you know will be layered over the analog engine helps a ton.

Another essential thing is proper gain staging. I’m always surprised after mixing a track to see how low the kick drum’s volume sits. Especially if you are using the compressor, whose default settings I generally find to just muddy a mix with wild side chaining when starting from an init kit. I’m a big fan of using the compressor with a low mix amount, and manual side chaining to attack and problematic points in a sequence without resorting to moving away from the device.

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#13

:joy:

Plus indeed the compressor is important for this. I use it more and more successfully to give the kick some transient umpf and then quickly dial it back. That helps constraining the otherwise thick bassy decay/release of the kicks. Almost like a sort of ADSR envelope, using the compressor to decay the kick quickly into a lower hold/release stage… I use the HPF in the compressor, how about you people?

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#14

Use the notch to tame the kick. Resample it and then use a different filter for moar fun.

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#15

I think the AR and DN are GREAT together!

If you’re having low end problems, it could be because you’re pressing everything too hard with the master distortion or compressor. Give the AR headroom and the other gear will mesh with it well.

The filter is super nice to find sweet spots. Especially on kicks, as mentioned, the knotch filter. Also be aware of the analog circuits realllllly long tails. I usually first edge them to where I want, then in the analog machine then nudge the amp envelope left a bit until it conflicts.

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#16

I resample a lot - just cut lows and then save to the same pad.

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#17

And

!! I always forgot how you can ínternally resample in the Rytm! You can, can’t you?? Need to try this asap. Great tips

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#18

On the mk2, yes. It’s the one feature I feel like I’m really missing since I have the mk1. Resampling is so much fun.

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#19

How do you know they improved the bass?

What I didn’t like about the mki was the bass rolled off too soon on the kicks when you pitch them down. One thing I love with drum machines is creating very low pitch sub kicks with a super short decay but still punches through the mix. Always had to use the filter to boost the low end because it was non existent otherwise (when the machine is pitched right down). Would consider buying the mkii if they fixed it. They improved the A4 low end and saturation with mkii so wouldn’t be suprised if the same applied to the rytm.

#20

I find the Rytm’s kick machines go so low when pitched right down that they go below the human hearing range (around 20Hz). There’s ‘no bass’ because it’s actually far too low. You must have been using the filter to boost the harmonics, not the fundamental. So I personally never drop TUN below -36 for kicks.

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