Looking at working with a hardware sequencer again

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

I had a Pyramid for a while and what I remember about it is that it really forced me to work on the song, and not get distracted by the other parts of the production process. It was also nice to have things independent of the computer … felt like a “safe space” if that makes sense.

I like writing on grooveboxes, but inevitably the Elektron sequencer is not enough so I use Ableton to fill the gaps.

I am wondering if there are any MIDI sequencers out there that might fit the bill better than Pyramid. Otherwise I might get one again since prices are down due to Hapax. The only problem I have with Pyramid is it’s not the best with unusual time signatures or really long sequences. And no automation curves.

Some thoughts:

  • Old Yamaha sequencers seem to have a bit of a following. Not sure I’d be down for the “Job” based workflow that I think Yamaha was known for, which I know about because I used to have a QY-70 and a QY-100. The event editor also is pretty brutal.

  • An MPC might fit the bill, I just wonder how tempting it might be to procrastinate the same way Ableton makes it easy to

  • Another avenue is Digitakt, which has fairly decent MIDI sequencing but also sampling. I like writing on the Model:Cycles so I think the kit-per-pattern / pattern chain / improvisation paradigm would feel natural. It would be similar to Pyramid, only with samples, but without the very handy parameter maps, or higher event detail. I figure that sampling could fill the gaps?

  • An iPad might be another option. I just don’t know a lot about the apps that are out there yet. Not a huge fan of dongles, but given a big enough screen I think a touch UI would be just fine, better even than mouse and keyboard.

  • As crazy as it might sound, a cheap PC devoted entirely to MIDI sequencing might serve my purpose. I’d need to find a MIDI sequencer app with no audio support.

I love Ableton is the other thing. The session grid is as good as Pyramid. It almost feels too convenient … maybe that’s why I’m more productive with hardware ironically. Every action is more of an investment. Yet at the same time things are already set up and you end up spending less time not writing.

Open to ideas and suggestions.

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#2

I’ll chime in to say that a Cirklon is probably the ultimate solution… albeit the most expensive and not considering the near four year wait.

You might want to review this thread: I need a software midi sequencer not a DAW - The Lounge / General Discussion - Elektronauts

This gets mentioned as midi only: Seq24 (filter24.org)

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#3

The Pyramid can do long sequences and automation though?

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#4

Working with multiple tracks with long sequences has issues, if you want to move to another part of a sequence and play from there and have other tracks play at the same position alongside, it does not work, they play from the beginning, unless they are set to play asynchronously, but that imposes restrictions on song structure. You can only play a single track from the position you want. You can chop things up into sections, but you get only 32 of them, and splitting apart a long sequence after the fact is laborious.

Automation on Pyramid has two gotchas. One you can’t connect automation points like in a DAW, it is just discrete points. That’s an issue, because memory is very limited and it is super easy to fill it up.

Those issues are connected. For example, if you wanted to have a drum track with occasional variation, the natural solution is to duplicate the loop many times within a sequence. If there is any smooth automation, though, that eats up memory like there’s no tomorrow. You could make that automation a loop on another track, to save memory, but you can’t “override” any part of that or the events conflict.

#5

I would just get something that you can get to 95% with sequencer wise then import the midi to a daw and finish the rest.

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#6

@Roger also, the Pyramid firm ware has been updated to be more efficient.

example:

PyraOS V4.00
february 19, 2021

Misc
greatly optimized the real-time OS code, processing is now faster than ever
optimized memory, number of stored events are now limited to 13000 (instead of 10000)
CC messages are now sent before midi notes
Touchpad range improved
PEDAL REC now auto-set MODE LIVE
Error messages popups are not blocking the player anymore
improved SYNC LOAD = SEND CLOCK (the clock is more solid when loading a project)
it is not possible to consolidate time signature different from 4/4 anymore (to prevent consolidate issues)
midi learn is now working when OMNI MODE = MULTITRACK Bank A/B/C/D
#7

That’s around the time I had mine. I was up on the latest firmware and active on the forum.

No hate on the Pyramid. Just not sure if it’s better than training myself to be more disciplined in Ableton. (I.e. effort spent working around limits vs the battle with distractions)

#8

maybe a push 2?

#9

Oh, I thought about Push 2, forgot to mention it in my list. I don’t think it would be enough of an “illusion”. Plus every feature is still available. So the benefit seems to be mainly the physicality, i.e. the nice and flexible grid and knobs.

#10

look at Oxi One.

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#11

That sequencer looks really fun. Limited to 128 steps, but it seems easier to use than Pyramid, particularly in the arrangement department, which could make up for said 128 step limit.

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#12

i have both. both rock, but arrangement is really super cool feature of Oxi One.

#13

I’m really enjoying Syntakt for sequencing external gear (I cancelled my Hapax pre-order for it). The keyboard mode with kb scale and kb fold functions are great. I wish the DT had those - maybe they’ll include in a future update? Perhaps wait and see what Polyend Play brings to the table?

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#14

The best sequencer might be just a question of work flow and this is very unique for each of us.

I use to control hardware with:

  • MPC (regularly)
  • Elektrons (OT, sometimes)
  • Pyramid (not often anymore)
  • OXI (matrix sequencer, regularly now)
  • SEQ 12 (matrix sequencer)

For writing on a step-sequencer I now use the OXI. The OXI shines, because the matrix interface combined with the scales and chords makes for fast generating and editing patterns. I like to tweak my ideas quickly without diving into menus or klicking to many buttons. For me the Pyramid needs too many “klicks” to get done, what I can do with one “klick” on the OXI :wink:

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#15

Think you can compromise a little as you seem to like it a lot. Nothing is perfect.

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#16

There is that pioneer thing that came out a short while ago … though I think they abandoned it instantly. ( or perhaps it was finished on release and we shouldn’t expect more to be added )

At this point I’d probably go elektron , recent akai ( though I haven’t used them ) , hapax or wait for ‘new shiny glittering boxes that are coming soon ‘ That never match anyones expectations.
But then comes along another new shiny glittery box
Repeat
Repeat
Mmt8
That tiny but expensive calculator thing that was announced a while ago and likely to reappear at superbooth by retrokits

I had pyramid but didn’t like the tiny screen
I had engine but wasn’t keen on buttons / build quality.
W30 was quite basic but slowed down a little when changing pages
Mpc2000 … nah.
I mostly use digitakt atm.

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#17

@sabana

Maybe. The question is can all be worked around effectively. As far as long tracks, in the worst case, you can load a project into a DAW. On automation, I think you can automate LFO’s, retriggering them and changing parameters to fake automation curves.

There’s definitely a lot to be said for going with tried and true. If something works, I’ve learned that ya shouldn’t discount it.

BTW, these weren’t even dealbreakers, I only got rid of it because I was low on cash and was really into sequencing on my M:C so I felt like I didn’t “need” it.

However OXI looks really really nice. It’s not like I thought the Pyramid was perfect, the UX takes a little getting used to and OXI seems more fluid, with some tradeoffs.

Currently I’m considering that, Pyramid, and a used 1st gen iPad pro + Xequencer.

@re5et

I had a MPC1000 for a while. In the end it was the buttons… they were just hard on my fingers. And seeing as they were the only way to get around on it… And the sampling engine had a serious limitation on its ability to loop samples smoothly.

Digitakt might be what I wish the MPC was.

Small screens definitely aren’t a big deal to me.

#18

iPad will allow a lot of experimentation
You’ll also do a lot of audio / fx / modulating and making lots of sample chains.

Get the more recent camera connection kit ( that you can put power into )
And dig into the iPad app thread

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#19

The iPad dongle issue is always big for people thinking about using the platform. In my iPad setups (I have several iPads for music making) they are either mounted on a VESA arm, or on an angled metal laptop stand on my desk.

In either case, I Velcro the USB dongle (using some mega secure stick-on Velcro) to the back of the VESA arm mount or underneath of the laptop stand, inputs facing inward for easy plugging of usb devices (audio interfaces, midi keyboards, wireless keyboard/mouse dongles etc), and simultaneously allowing usb cable routing to be hidden.

This keeps the setup neat and clean, puts the usb hub/dongle out of the way and secure, and is akin to working with any laptop or desktop computer. No floppy dongle or weight hanging on the lighting/USB-C port. All you see is the single cable from the dongle to the iPad. Additionally, if you take the iPad to go, you just unplug the single cable and the rest stays put until the iPad returns.

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#20

I have the Vector and the Hapax. I like both of them but they are very different.

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