Jonwayne drops into r/elektron with some octatrack hip-hop

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#44

Cool to see you lurking around here! I’m a big fan, even before knowing you used the OT. You should join one of our hiphop beat battles some day :wink:

I’d say stick to the 2x OT method. A lot of people seem to make entire sets in 1 single project, but I never got the benefit of doing that. You run out of sample slots quickly, saving/changing stuff on 1 track changes stuff on the others, and, as you said, you can’t move stuff around between projects easily.

I always do 1 beat= 1 project. Seems to work for you too, so I’d just stick to your guns if I were you…

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#45

Sleepy! Why one beat per project instead of per part if I may ask?

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#46

Yeah I can imagine. There is a 3rd party piece of software for the OT but i’d say parts or 2 OTs work far faster

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#47

Parts are just metadata applied to the sequence and scenes, they are tied to the BANK. Parts share the samples you have in your project.

Like many aspects of the OT’s design, you have the discretion to use assign similar sounds and routings to performatively switch parts but also just use them to create different segments of a beat in the same bank of patterns. Personally I find a lot of happy accidents by seeing how the pattern I have spent a long time fine tuning sounds with other parts I have created previously . Sometimes it sounds great but usually it just sounds comical.

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#48

Well coming from years of mpc use it makes more sense to me to create a new project when starting a new beat. Since I’m a producer, not a live performer, there no benefit in putting multiple beats into a single project.

Besides that, having multiple beats inside of a single project just messes with my head. I use parts not to make different beats, but to try out different mixes/drum sounds on the same beat btw… also works great :wink:

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#49

Hey @JonMakesBeats!
Still have a vivid memory of you on Lyon’s Sonic barge’s stage in 2014, glad to see you in this space.

I think this is not a proper way to do it.
You certainly have reasons to do so, but if this is a matter of transitioning, it’s not right.

A simple way to setup your OT would be having say 4 different instrumentals per Bank, 1 for each Part, each having 4 Patterns for variations with the same sounds. Let’s say Pattens 1, 5, 9 and 13 attached to Part 1, 2, 3 and 4.
By using slices, you can prevent running out of Slots for your samples/stems, that’s my favorite way.
You can copy-paste Parts (think of them as Kits that gather the sound settings of all 8 tracks), and same goes for Patterns.
Remember that you can rename Parts if you want to put a label and remember what’s where.

To transition within one OT, it’s a good thing to practice the transition trick.

2 OT’s is far from a bad idea, even if you use the first one kind of standalone you could still use the other as an resampling + FX box, so many ways to run this.

But yeah, using two with a mixer in a middle to transition from one totally makes sense.
I would still use a project to gather up to 64 instrumentals the way I described it above, though.

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#50

And since I am an amateur, I think of each project like a sketchbook and will just fill up every pattern, part, and bank, before moving on.

I love how the OT accommodates all approaches.

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#51

And to add; a part of course does not have to use just those instrumentals; with P-locking you can use all 128 static / flex samples of course, so you could use the 4 patterns per part to work towards the next part even.

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#52

Hi. @JonMakesBeats, welcome to Elektronauts. I hope you got what I meant. Please post more on Elektronauts ! :content:
Check this :
Elektronauts Hiphop Beat Battle #15: Into The Sunset— Morricone edition
(You can set notifications if interested)

Concerning projects, I lazily used one project per “musical project” before. When my full 16GB card went wrong probably because I turned off OT too quickly while being writing, I had to think about it. A saved project without samples in its folder is around 20MB iirc. Btw there is an option to save recordings in active project.

AFAIK, concerning projects between 2 OTs with the same card data, the only difference beside hardware can be settings in PERSONALIZE menu, and it shouldn’t affect playback.

Beside that, the “only?” difference between projects can be sample assignments : you can copy a bank from project A to project B, it will copy patterns and parts (both are written in bank files), or copy patterns and their parts individually. But sample slots have to correspond.

You can write project A sample slots allocation on reliable hardware (paper :pl: ), and change them one by one to match them on project B. It is also possible to modify the project file, but projects have to be in the same SET (a Set is just a folder, but you can’t play samples from a different Set).

Sample path example, you can edit it with a text editor :
Transferring songs from old Octatrack to the new one - #8 by sezare56

Another thing to know is that saved files (.strd files, created after SAVE) and current files (.work) are different. I’d edit project.work file, then save project (or copy and change extension .work to .strd).

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#53

enjoying your channel! very relaxing but entertaining videos.

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#54

First of all regarding everyone’s responses: the varied philosophies that are on display shows the very reason why I enjoy this machine. I know someone mentioned one way to do things was an “improper” way to do it but I think you’ll all agree the Octatrack does not inform you of a specific workflow and part of the challenge in getting to know it is telling the machine how you want it to behave. An MPC may spoon-feed you its workflow and that’s a big reason why people like it so much but the OT requires you to decide that workflow for yourself. With that in mind, I don’t think any way of working with it could be considered “improper”. I think when the developers give you this much structural freedom they intend on the virtue “let the machine work for you, don’t work for the machine”. If we define what we do with it based on its boundaries (limitless or not), striving to define our compositions based on its capabilities, are we not working for the machine? Something to think about.

With that out of the way, lots of helpful stuff, here. I think the one thing that I come back to is the limitations of the Sample Pool. As someone who brings in some pretty lengthy samples for sampling it’s a problem I run into all the time. I’ll hardly use all slots but still back up against the memory limitations with a single beat at times. If a project limits itself to that, I don’t see a benefit to reworking previous compositions into a shared project.

One thing I do underutilize is parts, though. I’ll be using this to create slightly altered B sections in the near future. You fellas inspired me.

Jon

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#55

Octatrack: Unlimited Limitations…

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#56

Unlimited With Limits should be the rebranding I swear

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#57

Is there a length limit per project? I didn’t know. I thought Static samples were pretty much only limited by the size of your CF card.

#58

RAM is 85.5MB, corresponding to 8m28s in stereo (16 bit). It includes 128 FLEX slots and 8 recording buffers.

STATIC machines use the 128 STATIC slots, reading files from the CF card, up to 2GB (around 3h30m) per slot !
So you can theoretically play more that card limit in a project (85.5MB + 128x2GB).

Caveats : Static machines can be clicky if played live or with start/slices modulations, and you can’t edit Static samples in a destructive way (AED EDIT parameters are limited).

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#59

I should have specified I’m talking about Flex machines specifically. I don’t typically use the Static machines as I don’t get the control that I prefer to have when I use them.

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#60

I was using FLEX most of the time, but I tend to use STATIC more and more (with last hip hop contests I used a 1 hour sample, Shostakovich concert. Works really well, even with timestretch, pitch/reverse modulations…

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#61

Ah thanks! I use statics a lot, never felt too limiting tbh. Need to mangle more I guess!

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#62

Sounds like maybe the 3rd party software OctaEdit could help?

The Manager module provides the ability to copy “data” from the Source Set/Project to the Target Set/Project. Data can be copied at the Project, Bank, Pattern, Track, Part or Scene level, from any Project in any Set to any other Project in any other Set, including the ability to remap sample assignments on the fly.

Haven’t used myself though…

#63

No, maybe I haven’t said it right but I think my point was missed.
I do believe each OT user has their own workflows. It depends on the style, other gear plugged, studio vs live config and so many possibilities to play it that there can’t be bad and good. I wasn’t being judgmental, that was not my intention.

What I failed to say was that you don’t need to use one project per track. It adds no real benefit in the scenario you described.
First it forces you to load a new project each time you want to change to another beat.
Secondly there is a limit to the number of project an OT can handle.
Thirdly it makes it harder to copy/paste between your beats.
And I could continue the list…
Only benefits I could imagine are the fact that you can really know what is saved or not, and that you can have a large sample slot list for each beat…

But I believe you could reach a more comfortable workflow by using for starters what I described earlier: 1 Part/4 patterns per beat for instance, so 4 beats per Bank (64 beats per Project).
This would make transitions a bit easier, and let you play in one box.

Regarding the sample slots limitation: most of the time I use sample chains, that I play in Slice mode, live playing/recording the slices for each track.
You can have 64 slices per sample slot, and 128 slots for each Static and Flex list, so that makes some large number of samples in the end…

Regarding memory limitations: I use mainly Static samples (for drums, waveforms, fx, even voices), while keeping most of the Flex space for live recording/mangling.

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