Kinda proving my point here with the house prices chat.
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people = 6% unemployment = Donāt tread on me, lets destroy the world
other people = 18-20% unemployment = get over it, pull yourselves up by your bootstraps
me = 
at people
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only Olivia newton-john can save us now
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I donāt wanna fight AI and itās strange that so many people are disgusted by this technology. I find AI music generation incredibly fun. I spend hours writing scripts and listening to the results. What I focus on is how and why AI came up with those harmonic and rhythmic solutions. Some might say, āItās just copypasted from the database, with a little twistā but this is the same mechanism humans use to play music; in fact, thatās how culture in general works. Itās true: sometimes AI produces truly banal music, but this also happens to human composers, so again, nothing new.
The ethical controversy surrounding AI (essentially copyright issues) is a legal matter; it has nothing to do with the technology itself or its output.
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I donāt think anyone is complaining about bad music, like you said humans make bad music all of the timeā¦ i think people are concerned about other things.
Itās a bit like saying the ethical issue of an atomic bomb are a legal matter that has nothing to do with the technology itselfā¦ that is a hard sell to make imho
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does the gas industry have nothing to do with the automotive industry?
also in the grand scheme the copyright issue is, in my opinion, the least important of the ethical dilemmas
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if anyone is interested in how fu*ked up and evil ai is, they might be interested in reading this really awesome book by hito steyerl in which she āargues against the production of images that heat up the planet, disfranchise workers and fuel the arms trade, and questions whether such creations can even be called artā
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@captain8
At the time, there was intense debate over whether to use the atomic bomb to bring Japan to surrender. the Pentagon estimates suggested that without it, the war could drag on for another two years, costing as many as 500,000 American lives. In the end, President Harry S. Truman decided to proceed with the launch.
The key point is that the scientific community isnāt responsible for making ethical or political judgments about the use of a new discovery, that responsibility belongs to politicians. Beyond its military application, itās worth noting that the same nuclear energy once feared is now likely powering your home, proving that the discovery ultimately had valuable uses.
As for the original topic: the goal isnāt to fight AI or deny its existence, but to harness its potential for good. With the enormous investments already made, itās clear that AI is here to stay, whether we like it or not.
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I disagree, in my opinion the responsibility belongs to the people.
again I disagree, the goal of this thread is clearly about fighting AI, but I donāt believe anyone is talking about fighting itās potential for good, I think they are talking about something else, like itās potential for bad.
now on this point we definitely agree 
in regards to discoveries having valuable usesā¦ every discovery has valuable uses, that doesnāt mean that anything good from a discovery negates anything bad from a discovery, especially when youāre not talking about a matter of survival which AI is notā¦ Even people themselves have potential for good and potential for bad but we would never allow oneās potential for good negate the bad they do, and just because that isnāt a true statement doesnāt make it right.
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Reading the entire thread, it seems to me that we are digressing too much, at this point it is necessary to understand what we are talking about: what are the pros and cons of the AI āārevolution focusing on music production?
the music industry is already systematically predatory, when AI reaches itās prime I canāt even imagine what the upside will be industry wiseā¦ Maybe it will saturate the industry to the point that rejecting it becomes a trend, like rappers who canāt rap have saturated the industry so much recently that rappers who can rap are trending again?.. There is just no telling but if our species follows itās own metrics Iād wager there will be some devastation in the ranks to put it lightlyā¦
Do you think the advent of this technology will lead to more happy artist?
Mmm no, AI simply isnāt capable of extrapolation. Everything it does is an interpolation of its training set. Doing reverse image searches on diffusion-based outputs helps to clarify this. Humans can for sure copy just as well, but we arenāt only capable of recycling what we have already observed. It may be a small number of people whose creative ingenuity really noticeably moves the needle, but in small ways any person dedicated to a creative craft will extrapolate a fresh idea. Any illusion of novelty from an AI is linked entirely to the mash-up asked for by the prompt. It simply diffuses to the best prediction of the ask. I donāt think itās any surprise that the endless AI slop channels being recommended to me on YouTube are dominated by music mash-ups: Eminem crooning 50ās style big-band; Stone Temple Pilots Reggae; Pink Floyd Dub.
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Bad music wasnāt invented by AI, it was there before, itās always been there. I believe the only fight artists should wage against AI is copyright: the database used by Suno or Udio for training should be subject to some sort of clearance, and in any case, the artist should choose whether or not to give consent for their music to be included in the database. Today, this aspect isnāt taken into consideration at all, and the behavior of the AI āāalgorithm is comparable to piracy. For now, the law canāt keep up with this technological innovation, but Iām quite convinced that in the future, all of this will have to be regulated.
again I donāt think Bad music was never the issue, I mean music is subjectiveā¦
the only thing I see people worried about is exploitation by AI and people behind AI, and that could come in a myriad of waysā¦ I donāt think regulation can even keep up with common sampling let alone what AI promises to be in itās primeā¦ because I donāt know of anything that would make the people in charge want to definitively regulate AIā¦ admittedly I havenāt seen everything but I certainly havenāt seen anything that would lead me to believe that doing AI justice is a priority, sounds fanciful to my ears.
I think the plan is to let it loose and free like every other technology and to feign some light restraint while they let it ravage the art community and let the artist fend for themselves. You heard what the head of spotify said he thinks of the craft of music, I have know doubt what his inclinations will be with AI to bolster himā¦ and I donāt think heās an anomaly.
the best way to fight AI is power outage in a datacenter where AI is hosted.
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@captain8 I donāt understand the point of the thread then: we want to fight AI, but there is no one here among us who has a serious proposal on how to do it. I think this is the usual time-wasting rant
ahh I see, a thread like this is limited by the nature of a musical forum thread so the point isnāt dissimilar to other threads on the forum, itās rooted in forum decorum if you will, a proposal is out of scope but suggestions are not and there are suggestions in this thread as well as the forum at largeā¦ as long as youāre open minded youāre good, and any suggestions you might have in regards to the subject matter will be appreciatedā¦ the topic is a question after all, only thing I guess is that Iām still not sure if you think the advent of AI will be good for artist or not you kind of dodged that one, weāre just sharing ideas and opinions in this thread with the exception of mr robot Chaocrator up there 
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hey 2 AI walked into a bar and they didnāt order anything to drink, you know why?
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because AI donāt drink! 
Wellā¦the OP suggested using physical media for distribution was an approach, which seems fairly serious as far as proposals go.
Iād argue that just continuing to make music as a human and share it however you like is also an approach that merits consideration.
The sense that we should be āfightingā AI (as is obvious in so many comments already) is loaded with a lot of philosophical questions and has economic/socio-political implications that make this kind of discussion challenging, but I think worthwhile anyway.
The people who are developing and distributing these instruments are so obviously shoveling them out as quickly as they possibly can, without any real consideration of ethics regarding IP, political misuse and abuse, intellectual atrophy, etc. Itās clear that they are increasingly desperate to demonstrate to their financial backers that there is some kind of return on investment on the horizon.
This is where I am popping popcornā¦the amount of money/energy/natural resources being poured into these things right now beggars the imagination, and absolutely towers over any kind of profitable return. Itās increasingly difficult to see this from an investment point of view as anything other than a giant bubbleā¦but in contrast to previous tech bubbles, this one has a shockingly real physical cost in terms of the electricity, water, and rare earth materials AI needs to gobble up to work. Itās hard to see it be in any way sustainable. I am fascinated to see how it all plays out, and doubt individuals will have the appetite to actually pay the kinds of fees to Suno/OpenAI/etc. to pump out some derivative nonsense that it actually costs to power and cool the servers required to produce.
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culturally speaking weād better develop a lack of indifference for the consequences of our actions quick fast and in a hurryā¦if the consequences are going to be a deterrentā¦ itās worth hoping forā¦
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I say all of this as a regular user of different GPTs for writing code. I find them a mixed bag. I have a lot of success using them for boilerplate and general setup, and have had some success in deploying more advanced but well-established algorithms. But I have also found I have to babysit them every step of the way, and clear out a lot of hallucinations. Right now my employer pays for all of this, and it has been a net positive in terms of productivity. But understanding how much each of my prompts burns and the subsequent losses AI companies are sustaining to expand their user base, I struggle to see how the modest gains I see are really worth it. Itās a big bubble.
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