I want to buy a DAW: Ableton or Logic?

The Lounge General Discussion
#61

Live 10 was released Feb 2018. Live 11 was released Feb 2021. My upgrade cost was $183 for Suite last Feb, or $61 per year since I bought 10 Suite upgrade . Less than Bitwig’s annual Pro maintenance of $169 by a lot.

I first bought Live 9 Suite as an upgrade from free Live Lite to standard (in 2016) to Suite in late 2016 for $600 en toto combined. (Base cost)

Live Suite 10 upgrade in 2018 was $239. (119.50 per year for upgrade again less than annual Bitwig maintenance)

My costs for Ableton from 2016 to 2021 all-encompassing was -200 per year for Suite.

Bitwig studio is normally $399 ($299 thanks to current sale). Maintenance is $169 per year after 1st 12 months. Asauming $299 would have been possible to get in 2016, 299+(5 more year at 169 ea.) to get to 2021 in maintenance is $1145, or $190 a year. (206 a year if you paid the $399)

Ableton is about the same per year at the top Suite level for me vs Bitwig Pro per my years - but if I had bought Live Suite 9 in 2013 when it was released, it would only be $128 per year for everything since then. the opposite of the savings some Bitwigians would have you believe - actually historically much less than Bitwig with maintenance every year. And between major versions Ableton updates are free, no annual maintenance fee.

Just some perspective. Bitwig ppl make it sound like it costs less but I’m not seeing that in the ledger.

I’d call it a wash personally.

Also I switched from Apple to Windows in 2018 to get a similarly powerd computer (Dell G5 gaming laptop) for $2000 less than a similarly speced Apple MacBook Pro and all my sets kept working perfectly including VSTs. Logic commits you to stay with Apple. I’ve always refused to but any music software that won’t run on both.

Obviously I’m a Live guy. (I also have a full Max license - Im a coder and Max is awesome, and I wanted full access to ~gen)

My latest all-Ableton Release for those who say it doesn’t sound good (best with subs or headphone that can do 40Hz+):

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#62

Two guys here mentioned Reaper.
You should consider it, or at least try it. (You can try it as long as you want, with no limitation)

I used Logic for something like 15 years. I really loved it. But when my 8 uears Apple computer breaks down, i couldn’t afford a new one, it was too expensive for me. So I bought a Windows computer, and use now Reaper for recording my dawless setup.
At the begining, it was hard to use, because of my habits one Logic. But there are a lot of tutorials on YouTube, and now it’s pretty ok. I tried Ableton, but didn’t like it, use too much ressources, and was pretty unstable one my computer, but maybe it was just one my computer.

At the begining, i had to search for VST instruments, because there barely nothing of that in Reaper, and i’m still composing on computer for feeding my OT. But when you find some, it’s ok. And there a lot of good and free instruments in the web.

Anyway, my choice was a Daw that is in both mac and pc, that is powerfull enought to do what I want, and lightweight, because I don’t have a big and fancy PC.

That was my 2 cents contribution.

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#63

You know something people often forget to do - just email the company and ask for a cheaper price. I do this regularly if I’m hard up that month and really want an upgrade. Or if your a student or just starting out, vendors are happy to offer deal sweeteners to retain new customers

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#64

Yeah was wondering if you could turn it off last night.Very strange…

#65

Thanks for the figures - I couldn’t remember the release dates for live, or the prices.

I’m not personally arguing that Bitwig is cheaper over time, but I do think it muddies the waters somewhat to present discounted prices - you got a good deal on the initial cost of Live, and your upgrade prices seem to be the discounted ones.

For comparison, Bitwig has a yearly sale (maybe twice-yearly?), so you can reliably expect to get a discounted upgrade. They’re currently offering a year’s sub for $129. At that price, the six-year cost drops to $157/year.

I could also point out that I got Bitwig last year at a hefty discount for $177, which’d bring that yearly number down to $137.

So it’s probably more useful to compare non-discounted prices eg $749 for Live Suite, $200 for the 11 update, etc. And it remains to be seen whether Ableton intend to make paid updates a more regular thing.

Even if Suite is more expensive, it offers an awful lot more (for certain workflows) than Bitwig - the number and quality of software instruments, the sound packs, Max, etc etc. While Bitwig is (imo) an amazing instrument of a DAW and does a lot Ableton can’t do (or at least, does it in a nicer way), for sheer volume of ‘music making stuff’, it can’t compete. So on the price front, you have to know Bitwig is right for what you want to do, and if you want to regularly update it, you have to be happy to be funding a new and growing product. Live is clearly the better ‘bang for your buck’ purchase.

Though, for many people, a large up-front cost can be prohibitive - if you just want a working DAW, you could pay $399/$299/$177 for Bitwig in its current state, and simply not update it in a year’s time.

And yeah, it makes little monetary sense to buy Apple hardware just to use Logic - if that’s our outlook then it’s damn expensive. But if you already use a Mac and plan to only use a Mac (at risk of fanning the Mac/PC fire, using windows brings me out in hives), it’s a steal.

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#66

…if u like ableton workflow but are not that deep into daws yet…

do urself the favour and pick the one and only daw to rule them all…

bitwig…
half the price of ableton, a little more expensive than logic…
it’s THE sounddedesign, composing and editing tool for midi and audio all at once, with a workflow that is unbeatable fresh, slim and worx on all platforms and computersystems…
hosts all third party plugins with ease, let’s u modulate evrything with everything while offerering also open modular sonic spaces to create ur own and has the most flexible collection of on board fx plugins and note effect modules…

i’ve seen pretty much all usual suspects, when it comes to daws, and THIS is the very last one of my life…

and to add a little sidefact on the costs…it’s 370 bux max…but u can find the full version also sometimes for 299 or even 199…from then on, u got wht u got forever…but u have the option to refresh the upgrade plan on yearly bases for around 120 bux…every xear comes main update…but the update progress between the main ones with each year are massive…
at the moment we’re at 4.1…nd honestly…it’s already on a level of overall functions, that i can hardly think of anything i could whish for…so if i decide, i don’t need any further gain of gimmicks, i simply stay with the version i got…and run this on three individual devices, no matter it’s windows, mac or even linux, of my choice for years to come…no problem…

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#67

I honestly think all modern DAWs are likely going to be fantastic and maybe even Studio One should be looked at. It all comes down to various preferences so it’s a matter of finding what’s right for you.

I thought Logic had better sounding exports than Ableton until I spent some time in Ableton and have since finished my best sounding stuff. Has nothing to do with the DAW, just knowing how to work it.

Anyway, I’m a data analyst so maybe that’s why I prefer the “spreadsheet” look of Ableton :wink: I will say this article was nice to read as an Ableton user Ableton reportedly refused investment interest from Diplo, Scooter Braun, and Joshua Kushner - CDM Create Digital Music

But again, Logic is a fantastic value, Bitwig seems fresh and fun and can be had for a good discount, Reaper is still the best value DAW of all time, Studio One exists and seems to get love from people, and Ableton, while the most expensive, imo includes a lot for the money and the support for each version lasts a long time. I’d try them all.

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#68

Good point to have in mind. Actually i’m only considering Logic cause is way cheaper, but as you say, i already know Ableton so it’s a huge advantage not to learn a new tool.

The clock sucks.

Actually i’m not agree about that for the experience i had yesterday with Logic (i talked about it a few replies above). If you have some solution to it let me know!

#69

Actually I fight with this every time i put samples and stems in Ableton hahaha but I’m kind of used to unwarp everything.

#70

Honestly, I gave up on using Overbridge, I just record the main outs. It may be fine only if record only from OB(no multitracking with other hardware). Probably live has delay compensation on and Logic not. Check this: Work with plug-in latencies in Logic Pro - Apple Support

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#71

Thanks!

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#72

My personal perspective on this having used both extensively:
Generally speaking I get better sonic results from Logic.
Generally speaking I get more interesting musical structures from Ableton.
Both are great applications and the new features in Live 11 have improved some of its sonics, while the new features in Logic give it different workflow possibilities. TDLR: if you cant make music with either of these then :frowning:

#73

Let me explain how I realised that Ableton clock is not steady:

  • I like to use Digitakt and Digitone in sync like it’s explained in the DN manual. DT is the master and DN is slaved via midi. DT gets clock from Ableton via midi from a Presonus Quantum2626(usb midi or OB mode are worse).
  • Let’s say the master clock bpm in Ableton is 127. After some jamming I noticed that the DT bpm on the screen drifts(126,94, 127,11 and so on), On DN which got clock via DT the drifting was even worse. Not always audible but not stable. I initally though that the problem was with the Elektrons. On the same setup with Logic or Studio One the clock is rock steady even on usb midi or OB. I even slave the modular system via din from DT sync 2 to a splitter cable to clock/reset in Pamela’s New workout and it stays the same(Pam’s is the best clock I know and doesn’t like being slaved to an unsteady clock), no drifting in both Studio One and Logic.

LE: Tested with Ableton Lite 9/10, Standard 10(licence from a Push2), Suite 10 cracked, Suite 11(3 months trial) on both an 2016 i7, 16gb RAM macbook pro and on Windows 10 on a Lenovo Legion with 32gb of ram and a 8 core 10th generation I7.

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#74

Logic does this too. Also Logic has the live loop launcher view very similar to Ableton’s session view. Similarities are definitely there.

That being said I bought the apple educational bundle for $199 so I got final cut and logic and a few other things at a terrific price.

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#75

I think i’ll revisit my recording project from yesterday to see if i can solve the clock issues with DT and Overbridge.

Thanks!

#76

The price is the main thing why i’m looking into Logic hahaha

#77

Whenever using a DAW with Overbridge devices, the DAW should be the master for clock otherwise the DAW goes all weird in my experience. Could be worth trying. Regardless, I gave up on OB (too much hassle) and just record stereo outs instead.

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#78

These were the prices offered the day Ableton announced the coming product. They do that as pay $1 now and pay the rest at release, refundable if you change your mind before release. Yes, the upgrade price offered at that point is a little less (10% if I recall) than the upgrade price after release.

Live has two sales a year as well, currently Suite 11 is 25% off for $562.

I agree with this. I have a friend who is getting into Studio One bigtime and it is very capable. He has been a full Cubase and Ableton Suite user for years and for cinematic scoring he is finding Studio One to have some advantages.

#79

The Roland Cloud plug-ins and their vintage Windows interface, in my case.

#80

Enough to make your eyes bleed :grimacing:

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