I tend to overcrowd my techno until it’s way too busy

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

I love the nuanced kind of developing techno that many of you techno lovers here will know from for example the Knob Twiddlers’ Stay Home Soundsystem Speedy J kind of stuff.

But when I start improvising/jamming I most often quickly end up with ravey stuff that’s jam packed full of sound.

I know the sayings like “the art is in what you leave out”, but in practice that tends to turn out differently.

Recognizable?
Any tips?

People who’ve done this a lot longer than I have (two years), have you overcome this? Did it come with time? Or did you practice restraint explicitly? Or just embrace what comes out?

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What's your TECHNO setup
#2

Some things are okay to overcrowd. Crowded rhythmic and percussive elements, like those found in late 90s “drummy” Swedish and British techno are part of the sound.

But there shouldn’t typically be more than one hook and one counter hook. If you need more they should occupy the same track so not be heard together. Same goes for bass elements (reverberated kick thunder vs an actual bass line). These are simple rules that will help from overcrowding. Selective cutting of EQ helps a good bit too.

Could you post examples of what you’ve overdone?

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#3

I don’t make techno, but I’ve had good results with treating my overcrowded loop as the end or most full, biggest part of a song, and working backwards from there by subtracting layers. So start your tune with only two of those nine tracks or layers and add to them to later arrive at the busy part.
I’d also recommend focusing on each individual element and cutting things that aren’t essential. Try to find a centerpiece that you really want to stand out, and remember that you can’t have more than a few centerpieces.

Or just break all the rules and make something busy as hell and maybe it will be awesome. You could do that too.

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#4

That’s a good idea. In a bit I’ll be able to, will try and pick some bits from recent sessions.

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#5

Overcrowded sound wise/amount of things going on or overcrowded frequency wise?

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#6

Following this. I really would like to build tracks or set parts out of 5/6 elements max and keep it interesting at the same time.

When I’m writing/jamming, most of the time I got my 12 tracks on the Rytm filled with lightning speed.

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#7

Just came home, so going to make a couple of recording. But I think I’m more talking about amount of things happening at once, than about mixing / clashing frequencies perse.

Just the tendency to keep throwing things in more than I take things out

#8

Cool, I asked because I seem to remember you owning a rytm, and I love that thing to death, but I do have to take extra care not to let things get too muddy.

@Hooger perhaps try to actually limit yourself and just don’t use certain tracks :thinking:

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#9

Brilliant idea! But then I struggle with keeping it interesting. (at least: that’s my analysis)

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#10

Hmmm, I think most of that is just practice, that aside how are you trying to keep things interesting at the moment?

#11

It’s that dotted 8th delay, I tell ya! It fills every single empty 16th in your pattern until there’s nothing left.

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#12

I love to overcrowd!

But now i often ask myself, does this need this be here ? Is it adding anything to the moment? Does it make the track better ?

The hardest tracks (in my opinion) use minimal tracks , all individual sounds are full (maybe layered) and thats what i think could be tried every time

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#13

…the more u add, the more u need to finetune the single elements to fit with each other still…
without competing against each other to constantly fight for each of their own ear attention…

four to the floor is the easiest bottom line in music…
but end of all days, ANY music is an artform…
and any truu art starts at that point where the result becomes MORE than just the added up sum of it’s single incredients…

simple details can make a huuuge difference…

is the off hi hat just the off hi hat…or can this single sound maybe add a little more to the whole thing…than just spitting out a static accent to the off notation metric point…
one is open…one is closed…do u really need another hat to sizzle along and join the cake, or could that same closed one tell also another story than just the most obvious…

same same but different with every other usual sonic suspect…
kiks…basslines…chords…pads…fx…athmos…u name it…u decide…u design…
only adding up futher and further more won’t take u there, as u are about to learn these days…

so, if u really think the basic elements already in use need futher elements…
u need proper mixing decisions to make,…
eq, pan and volume first of all, to make them sing and groove along TOGETHER, not against each other…

human ear and conciousness have a certain threshhold of things still able to follow, of sonic storytelling still capable to grasp…beyond that u gonna need more advanced tricks to trick along…

try ckoke/mute groups…
16th hihats are nice in steady shuffle swing along flow…the groove glue…great…
but once u add the off hi hat…why should that steady 16th flow still be steady…?
a drummer would not be able to play this way…why would u make the machine tell to proceed so anyways…?
where any sonic event is placed to start is as much of importance as the point where it stops…
a silence is as much of importance as the notes…
each single element needs it’s own space to shine…

too many good reasons why kik and bass can only shine for real if they have some ducking ping pong game and set of rules with each other going on…THE classic…
where it kiks, the bass ducks away a little…
where it’s bass, the kik is not there or at least not that prominent in that MOMENT OF MIX…

try contrasts…instead of overcrowding…andkeep in mind…every single moment needs only 5 or six elements to make the moment blast and work…if u got way more than that, gate contrast full on from every moment to the next one…
and always juggle with different volumes…
everybody can play first role, center stage…
but not all at the same time…

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#14

I think I struggle to add movement and variation. Sure you can p-lock the hell out of a sound, but what I actually strive for is slow changes in the sound to keep the ears awake while the sound seems consistent.

But did not mean to hijack this thread, so sorry for that.

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#15

I always use the box analogy. Have a small set of sounds, drum machine, couple of synths - bass line and maybe some kind of lead line. Easier to do do if you have a mixer, give each sound it’s own channel, have a delay on one send, reverb on the other. Place your sounds in that box, front, back, top, bottom , left and right using the desk and the effects and then just jam bringing effects in now and and then, altering parameters on the synths very gradually, adding , subtracting drum sounds etc, use your mutes and solo’s, give everything space to breathe.

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#16

You can say “use fewer tracks” but that doesn’t really address the issue. What if a track hits one tom once every 4 bars. Probably not causing too much overlap.

Imagine a band of 2-4 people on a stage, each one playing a part. Is it possible for them to play your song? See how many tracks you can condense with sample/patch locks. If you can’t combine two tracks then maybe you need to drop some notes so you can. Look at each step of the pattern and make sure you don’t have too many tracks playing on each step - give them space.

Alternatively, like AdamJay was saying, having a lot going on can be workable but I would look at it as layers at that point. Use layering to keep the parts interesting and keep yourself busy making parts but in the end the listener only hears it as one part so it doesn’t over complicate the song.

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#17

Okay, here with some examples! To be honest, sometimes it’s worse, but here’s a bunch of snippets I just recorded, taken from my last improv practice session.

It starts already a bit busy but a bit restrained at least:

And by this time it’s just so much always haha

Hearing it back it’s less worse then I sometimes imagine, but it does have this barrage of short staccato 16ths constantly. Maybe that’s in part it?

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#18

A wall of Techno can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on who it falls on :slight_smile:

I think Adamjay was advising you to put things in the right place first before throwing them out, if you do that you’ll have a better idea of what to take out if you want… kinda like organizing your sock drawer before you get rid of the ones you don’t want anymore.

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#19

This is a really good approach. I didn’t know about this principle, but it makes sense, and is concrete enough to try and internalize.

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#20

Check this guy out. He gives several examples of how he comes up with all of the different elements of a jam. Then plays it after. Check out his other videos as he includes different setups.

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