This
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My advice for someone who asked me would be:
- Don’t smoke it – vape it (softer curve)
- Do it carefully if you’re depressed (see 5)
- If doing regularly – try to only do it once – twice a week max
- Do it after you have done your chores / workout etc. – best only in the evenings after you did stuff that was on your watch
- If you’re having a psychotherapy ditch it completely for the time
Also of course the common stuff like … if you’re young be extreeemly careful since we all know by now it’s retarding your brain’s development. There can be heavy sideeffects if you do it as a child.
Latest scientific research tells though: It could be beneficial for not getting COVID-19 since it occupies the receptors (same with nicotine) and the virus has less options to connect.
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I think of states of awareness and consciousness on a 360 degree plane. My “sober” state is maybe 1 degree of that at a particular point/angle in the circle.
Holotropic substances shift and expand/contract the position and width of that angle, sometimes significantly.
But so does food, sports, love, sadness etc.
So I really don’t like to think of it as “high” or “sober” but rather different angles to the whole. Which takes out the neurosis around these topics a little bit. And I really dislike this rigid insistence on “sober” as the only true, clear state of consciousness (for one because the singular “sober” state doesn’t exist and then also because holotropic substances can produce states of consciousness and awareness that have an entirely different level of clarity and truth to them).
A rule of thumb for me is, whatever I do to ESCAPE aspects of reality that I don’t feel fit to handle in any given moment, will harm me long term as the subtext of such an escape is “I do not believe in my ability to exist on my own powers.” And such escape can be through smoking or eating or secluding or drinking etc etc.
When I approach these things with awareness, positivity, life affirmation and self-love (and self-belief) they serve me to engage more deeply with life and see things from different angles in a different light.
I think when engaging with any plant or synthetic substance, the key is to be TRULY honest with oneself - what’s driving me, what’s my intention, what’s my current state of mind, how do I feel after, how do I want to engage with the world at this point in time.
Too often we find ways to lie to ourselves which we obviously know and realise (how could we escape that insight) which ultimately leads us to have less belief in and respect for ourselves. And that’s never a good thing.
Personally I’m mad grateful for the existence of and accessibility to holotropic substances and holotropic plants in particular.
In terms of productivity, especially with the kaya, it’s a matter of strain, amount, mode of ingestion, state of mind and environment (Timothy o’Leary’s famous “set and setting”). Learn yourself like you learn your instruments and respect your idiosyncrasies when choosing to engage with holotropic substances.
Regarding feeling down or drowsy the next day, I recommend trying vaping (the flower ideally). I feel that the days after are much more manageable when vaping and the body is left more vital post session.
In a nutshell, I think it is amicable that you want to give it a shot without the green and I say why not! See how it goes for you, be patient and see what you can discover from this different angle of awareness. Use the process also to reflect your habits and intentions around the consumption of green and see if you are happy with it or if there’s room for a more genuine, life affirmative relationship with it and/or yourself.
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Also just to add: if you want to “clear up” and build confidence and sensitivity, a great way to do that is fasting.
Many different ways to do it, for beginners I suggest a three day water fast. So no food for three days, but water and tea (ideally herbal, no sugar, honey is ok if you must) are fine and can be had plenty.
I’d also suggest engaging with life around you when you fast, that is don’t hang out in bed all day :). I was once told during a retreat that included fasting “while fasting, do things that give you good energy!” - like a walk in nature, a cold shower, listening to beautiful music, stretching, thinking of loved ones, making music etc (things that give me good energy).
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I find that when I take LSD I don’t want to be around electronic technology at all. It feels like the presence of Satan. I just want to be surrounded by nature.
But when I am peaking I could easily spend an hour or so plucking out harmonics on an acoustic guitar.
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In the end its not good to smoke all the time…
But sometimes, once a while it‘s perhaps funny. It‘s like with alcohol. A really good whisky may be good once a while but everyday beer not. If you can‘t limit yourself into enjoyment you will get bad habits and get nothing done.
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I disagree with the evening bit, I need at least 3-4 hours before sleep to get past the high and have a good sleep. Then I am tired and sleep super well. I think that might be the issue with some of the people saying they don’t sleep well. If I try and sleep high I can’t, if I let it wear off a few hours I sleep well.
That’s my experience with it at least.
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Weed success story 
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You sound very wise - would join your sect! Seriously! 
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used to smoke quite a bit and loved it, soo good for hearing things when sound designing or maybe thats what I thought. Have given it up for health reasons and have’nt smoked in almost a year. Do miss it though.
Think it is better as a sometimes things
Ah yeah sorry - always mix up afternoon and evening. I totally agree - with some strains it will keep you awake/restless too long
I used to smoke every day and loved it but quit 9 months before my twin boys were born. Haven’t touched it in three years now.
(constantly tempted to go to Amsterdam for a weekend with my mate though, maybe it will happen.)
As far as productivity goes I used to really enjoy noodling on synths high but now I get less free time to play anyway which means I’m probably less productive.
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Haha thank you, brother, I’ll post the patreon link in a moment… 
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I will never know lol
Heavy smoker for 25 years, I’m not even going to mention anything regarding quantities or frequent of use but let’s just say sky high wouldn’t even come close…
But I will say this thread has got me thinking 
Wait, what was the question again ? 
But in all seriousness I think it truly is time for a change… It’s never too late.
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This thread is fun to read, it’s making me realize I probably am the odd duck most of the time.
In my 20’s after smoking all doing carpentry painting and fabrication, I’d get home, smoke a joint with the band while lifting weights, load up the van with gear, get stoned & go practice, go home and get stoned, then do it all over again the next day.
Quit for over 10 years after a bout with heroine and cocaine.
For the last 12 years I animate all day. I am laser focused, especially if I get a proper hybrid strain to get hella stoned late morning. After work I get stoned and exercise, then get stoned and usually try to do something on a project, get high go to bed and do it all over again.
Plus I’m in TX, it’s NOT legal, so there’s that effort, work, risk, stigma.
I get it, people people have a variety of responses due to personal neural networking, chemical balances etc.
However, it does start to look suspicious when the same friends I’ve had all these years that love weed as much as I do, the ones who are lazy, are lazy whether we are stoned or not. The ones still rolling joints, building shit, moving equipment, and booking gigs are STILL doing just that, some have even gotten better at it over the years.
Sometimes I can’t help but hear that stigma cop out where people blame the substance for who they are, instead of seeing the substance has become an easy scapegoat instead of a more accurate description.
Nevertheless, sometimes stepping away is the only way to see the forest from the trees
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i never smoke it but i’ve considered starting to see how it affects my music.
laying off the drink on the other hand, idk… i’ve been doing a lot of 3d modelling and game design stuff lately, and maybe it’s just my brain isn’t so good with abstract numbers, but if i have a few beers i just cannot put a thing together in blender or unity.
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Long story short I use to smoke for around 15 years, last 7 of which was in the Netherlands. Basically everyday. At the end was all dull experience, and as a side effect, I was very irritable when not high. Weed often was helpful in my work as a graphic designer, helping me to get “in the zone” and spend a lot of time tinkering with designs. Music-wise not so good - judgement about frequencies wasn’t much on point. I’d often get headaches too.
Since moving to Norway where weed is illegal I basically gave up smoking weed and cigarettes abruptly 3 years ago and I’ve never felt better! Now when I go back in NL for a weekend I get high with pleasure and it’s a special, memorable experience. Weed shouldn’t be a daily part of anyone’s life. Now I feel more energetic which itself means more time for hobbies/music which is positive impact as a whole. Same if not more creative and sharp in hearing subtleties in sound.
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Probably one of my least favorite side effects of long term sobriety or whatever, is thinking my experience should apply to everyone. For some reason it flares up more when I have been sober for a long time.
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What you describe in the last part is probably due to what I wrote earlier. If you started your drug career too early and didn‘t have enough time to developed a proper personality and habits (or „the neuronal network“) you are doomed later.
My granny always said „Was Hänschen nicht lernt, lernt Hans nimmer mehr“ – means „What little Hans didn‘t learn, big Hans won‘t learn anymore“. There is a tiny bit of truth in that saying. It gets harder and harder to establish the good habbits (like regular workout or even eating, learning …or even getting a perspective for life in general - which you and your mates obviously have).
And especially if you escape from a depression or something alike life can quickly become a nightmare where the only solution is to quit what‘s holding you back or generating those thoughts/feelings — although you think it‘s something that „helps“ you with that issue.