How an Elektron song mode would enable us as musicians

The Lounge General Discussion
#42

I should add, from a product dev point of view (I’ve been in product dev all my professional life), it’s rare you listen to the actual feature requests from users, unless they’re very consistent. You rather try to find out why they ask for these features, and adress the need they’re expressing.

It’s more common than not that the feature requested is not the need resolved, but just a way to frame that need at the best of their abilities.

So I’m trying to take that approach as a user now, being humble to the fact that I have no idea what’s going on in Elektron’s inner sanctum and they know better than me, what an actual way to make song writing stronger, would look like in their world. But if they don’t know I want it, it’s less likely to become a priority for them.

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#43

A specific Sequencer Track with dedicated global-level Sequencer Trigs is a brilliant idea!

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#44

Would I be right in thinking there’s a clear split here between

  • people who are pretty happy with the paradigm of a 4/8 bar loop with variations (sometimes major ones)
  • people who want different structures, like verse, chorus, middle 8 breakdown, a different middle 8, transition. With perhaps a different chord progression in each, one percussion track between verse and chorus section, something else that’s common to all sections except the transition, perhaps some sounds that are not tied to a section at all ?

It wouldn’t surprise me to find that those who can’t seem to get what @circuitghost suggested are in the former camp perhaps ?

EDIT: and of course, for the former, an imposed, unavoidable structuring above the level of pattern could easily get in the way.

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#45

That’s very true. It’s important to distinguish between ideas for existing gear and indignant bitching about missing features that never were promised

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#46

This is very true. To enable a stronger workflow for song writing, the challenge would always be to not compromise on the current brilliance of the very mature and strong Elektron sequencer. It’s one of the most consistent pattern creation tools out there, including its ability to work wonders in a live context. I would imagine this is the big challenge for Elektron - how to make this more elaborate and not break what’s already working?

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#47

I know I’d be pretty pissed off if Elektron started making their gear less intuitive to cater for a bunch of bloody musicians and their bloody songwriting needs.

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#48

Can you explain in more detail how you do this on blackbox? (for those that do not know it) You briefly mentioned it earlier, but maybe a bit more detail?

That might allow someone with more in depth Elektron knowledge to consider how it might be implemented in Elektron workflow.

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#49

Sure :slight_smile:

Blackbox has 16 patterns. They can all run at the same time. Each of them have their own time signature, step count, launch and stop quantization and track lane, with the theoretical option to play up to sixteen samples at once, or variations of this.

When the sequencer is running, each pattern starts and stops at the quantized level you’ve set when you launch them. 1/16ths, 1/8ths, 1bar or whatever you go for. You launch patterns independently of each other.

When you batch these together in clips, in the Song Mode, the clip mode itself is the start or stop trigger for a pattern. You can start or stop a pattern at the beginning of a clip, or at a given beat within the clip. A clip has a set amount of bars can and either loop or move to the next clip, once it’s run its course.

Any patterns that keep playing across clips, don’t reset but just continue, which creates an overarching timeline of transitions between patterns that go beyond the regular start and stop launching that say occur when you move between patterns in Elektron. So if you got a long loop going, or just like the idea of a tight 11-step odd drum pattern run its entire own course across your song, while other more structured elements move in and out, that’s totally possible.

While it sounds simple, the transitions and movements these direct tools create, just make it a whole lot more interesting for me specifically to come up with ideas. I’ve been told Ableton works in a similar way, at its core, but I wouldn’t know myself so I can’t say this is true.

Circuit is similar to this, but I believe tracks reset when you switch patterns in Circuit. Deluge, however, has something similar going on, with the addition that you can also switch between variations of each track while it’s running, creating further depth. Roland’s MC sequencers do something similar as well, if I remember correctly.

If I’d boil it down to features after all, I’d say it’s this more free running approach beyond the pattern structure, that I’m really missing. The Elektron sequencer resets you from the start when you switch patterns, with the exception of the ones with samples that can free run across patterns as long as you don’t retrigger the sample. But it’s a primitive version of what I’m talking about.

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#50

No one who does not need a Songmode is forced to use it. But there are people out there that would like it for THEIR workflow. I don’t like and don’t understand 4 step sequences or totally random Eurorack noise, but my life is not bad when people use it, because I don’t have to. I totally do not understand why people argue in a way as if it’s about their life against a feature that others would love to have, even if it takes away nothing from them. That behaviour some people bring here is very sad.

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#51

I was typing the same thing @Uija, I’ll never understand the negativity around a feature request. Id like something like a song mode for the same reason as @circuitghost and to strum along with my uke.

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#52

Thanks.

Yes it sounds very similar to Ableton Clips. I think they did it first (or at least made it famous first), and many sequencers have since copied it or done something similar, including Logic Pro, Hapax, Drambo 2 and probably quite a few others.

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#53

Record through overbridge. One pattern at a time. Arrange afterwards.

Songmode would be nice. But there is workarounds.

/thomas

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#54

Isn’t song mode just an extension of sequencing? We start by sequencing tiny events, discrete sounds, create measures, then larger phrases, patterns.

Taking the process one step further, now we want to sequence those patterns with song mode. Heavens, no, that’s antithetical to the spirit of the Elektron workflow! These boxes were intended to be used for live jamming.

Tell that to a performer on an acoustic instrument who has to recreate their performance from scratch every time they play. They might argue that any sequencing, period, is antithetical to live music making. But they are just snobs, prisoners of their old, worn-out methods.

Meanwhile, you mute and un-mute pre-made tracks, tweaking the filters in real time in an epic demonstration of live performance.

Lack of song mode is not a deal breaker for me, because the dipsy doodle arrangements I make for my students typically fit within the length of a pattern. And when things get longer, I’m able to use pattern chaining when recording into my computer. I can live without song mode.

But, if I had it, I would definitely use it.

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#55

That live-Instruments argument is great, because in most productions today you won’t find many takes that are a bar long or longer…

#56

I think it is also important that Ableton Clips is not the same as a full timeline or piano roll type arrangement.

It was meant for live use, so it does not have to completely remove the performance aspect
(like a timeline does).

It allows you to view your track+pattern as a unit, that you can combine with other track+pattern units on the fly.

#57

I don’t know much about the recording industry, so I will have to trust you on that one.

My frame of reference for live music, however, is a concert or a recital. Virtually all the music I have ever performed has been, in that sense, “live”.

#58

And arrangement could involve Ableton’s Clips or Logic’s Live Loops I think. You don’t have to go full on ‘timeline arrangement’.

But you would have to be prepared to work in a DAW, which is a dealbreaker for some.

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#59

  • I’d love to have savable pattern chains with number of repetition/bars, mute status and transpose (for selected tracks) per line. MMT-8 like. Especially in the DN.

  • A plus would be lockable and freeable loops and jump marks in that song (or live set) structure.

  • And one automation lane running in parallel.

An extra Elektron songmode device with 4 to 6 midi outs that provided just this would be a working alternative.

For now i‘d be happily quiet if DT and ST had some/any sort of transpose per track and ST some sort of Arp.

We’ll see.

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#60

Drambo 2 has clip launcher, for those that are prepared to use a iPad.

#61

Or a Mac M1 computer instead.