Hi, so - when things hopefully get back to some kind of normal, I’m hoping to be in a position to do some clip/loop based gigs.
I’ve been working with Ableton, using an old APC40 and self-prepared clips. That’s going pretty well.
For real gigs, I’m considering going with an Akai Force. I have an MPC Live, which I might consider selling. If I decide against the Force, I might grab a Push 2.
Upsides I can see of Force over Ableton - standalone with no laptop. Solid dedicated OS, with hopefully few software update hiccups. Not having to take my expensive laptop out to gigs.
Ableton upsides - easier live tempo adjustment. Higher quality plugins. Possibility of using stems.
For producing, the Push 2 was a real gamechanger for me. The ease with which you can add and manipulate effects on a track, for example, made Ableton into a whole different ballgame for me. It really feels like I’m working with hardware instead of software, but with all the possibilities and perks that the software brings. I love the scales, pressure sensitivity, ease of creating loops and sequencing as well.
Aside from plugins, Octatrack can do much of what you’ve described here. Any reason that’s not in the running? Are you specifically interested in a grid format device?
What about Deluge?
What has informed your narrowing the choices down to Push 2 and Force?
I guess I’m just trying to understand more of what it is you like and want.
I’m a Force and a Live user.
And because I spend my day in front of it, I’m also a bit of a computerphobe.
I mostly work, both in Live and on the Force in clip view, at their core they’re the same, you create clips, string them together, add effects, automate and so forth and get a song done.
Both deliver on the core experience. Where Live shines is in the details, how easy it is to edit automations, how many more options you have, but where the Force shines, at least for me, is in focus. You have your samples, your have your hardware synths that you record as clip, you have all you need there in one box. Once I found my foot and decided which bits of the Force are good for me and which are, the Force became the fastest way to build a track.
A couple of things worth noticing:
Live mode on the Force: it is perfect to trigger clips and scenes in Live
With certain limits, Force opens als file so you can prepare your clips on Live and perform with the Force
Force exports als files, so you can create a bunch of ideas on the Force, keep making new clips and kits in the realm of hardware, finish in software on Live;
Sometime I take the audio from the soundcard into the Force, load a vst in Live, play it via midi from the Force, sample when I’m happy and close Live.
Not an easy choice, at the end of the day one over the other is really about what clicks with you. For me the key thing is being away from the computer, yet having options if I want to and from that point of view the Force works very well for me.
if you’re going to continue using live in conjunction with the force then it could be a pretty cool set up… if you’re choosing between the force or Ableton/push… I’d go Ableton push every time… bpm, time signature, and warp marker manipulation tech demands it!
I don’t own a Force but did own an Ableton Push 2 till last week (and a Push 1 many years ago).
If you don’t mind being tethered to a computer, the Push 2 is a phenomenal piece of equipment made even better by the imminent Live 11 release.
With the Force, Akai’s standalone promise is true, of course, but somehow it doesn’t FEEL true…I always feel like I’m tethered to a computer when I mess around with the Force…never quite get that “hardware feeling.” I also find the UI&X a little convoluted while still not able to fully reproduce the flexibility, power and speed of a DAW like Ableton.
Don’t get me wrong, the Force has its place, but personally if I had to choose (and pay for) one of them, I’d go for the Octatrack…
AdamJay - I have a Mk1 Octa, but I think it has to be grid since I’m essentially DJ-style mixing & matching clips which aren’t pre-planned.
I think with Octa, I’d need to set up sample change trigs.
8x8 grid, lets me select kick on row 1, and pull in other drums/percussion from other rows to create a combination I might not even have tried before.
I don’t think it’s Push2 vs. Force for the same purpose. More a case of - if I don’t get hold of a Force, I might grab a Push2 for the studio.
For on-stage, I’d probably use an APC since I like the fader volume control per track. Easier to pull multiple faders simultaneously than multiple rotaries as per the Push.
I might even map the APC faders to volume on a Force.
Checking out what you gain with push 2 when live 11 is released is probably a good idea, if you haven’t. The fact that you can use polyphonic aftertouch/mpe with a push 2 and live 11 is getting my GAS going at least.
Edit: After a couple of seconds more thinking, MPE might be stretching it, as there’s no x/y-parameter on the pads. If they release a new version with that, you basically have a linnstrument integrated with live. Which is cool.
I don’t think I need MPE. My normal way of working, is to play external synths over the top, so the setup for stage-work at core, would be Force or Ableton plus a few synths and possibly percussion or guitar even, depending what I feel like at the time and how much stage space I have.
