I started this thread was wondering myself quite similarly a while ago and started a thread – maybe you might find it useful. (thanks for merging @LyingDalai)
Now since 2.5 months I finally have one. It worked out incredibly well, but for different reasons. Unlike with the A4 I feel not really tempted to design sounds from scratch with the AR. I haven’t even looked at all machines so far – so chances are, there’s a lot more to explore within its limitations. Sample engine is very nice, but limited in a classic sampling way, too. Brought me back into samples after a lot of years.
What makes it an absolut keeper for me is the performance aspect and simplicity, which gave me a huge productivity boost and made me finish an 8-track EP already.
Which is not entirely true, if you take into consideration sound locking flexibility. Requires some thinking ahead sometimes. But that’s worth a whole new thread, probably.
amazing. thank you so much everyone for your input. super helpful. and lots to reply to here…
the first important thing to learn is that i was mistaken about the VCOs (thanks @Wild); as it sounds like the Rytm does actually have dual VCOs on 3 voices, and the A4 actually doesnt have it on any! (the exact oposite of what i thought!). that explains why i love the sounds i hear from the rytm demos.
i was confused because i understood from a video review by Oora Music that the Rytm doesnt have dual VCOs!
also, the elektron website says the A4 has:
" Synth voice features (×4)
Fully analog signal path
2 × analog oscillators"
can anyone clear this up?
i looked at the rytm on the elektron website and they say:“The dual VCO synth engine adds a charmingly chubby bass level to your compositions.” but its a bit confusing because i dont know if that can apply to any of the sounds, or just the ‘bass’ voice.
Wild; Can you tell me? Can track 1 and 2 be used for any of the engines/voices? (ie kick/snare/noise) ?
First of all A4 has two DCOs plus sub oscillators per voice/track. It’s not called Dual VCO because that, in Elektron’s lingo, refers to a specific type of machine.
The Dual VCO on AR, as mentioned you can use that on BD, SD, RS, CP tracks, the latter forming a choke group. Dual VCO as well as SY Raw and SY Chip can be used to create a variety of analog synth sounds and be played chromatically across a few octaves. There’s way more than bass to be explored.
To learn about which machine types can be used on which tracks I would recommend to have a look into the manual. (Appendix D: Machines, page 96 if you download the MK2 one)
as for the suggestions of other gear (tempest, vermona, modular set-ups): all good suggestions but i think i will stick with elektron gear for now as im using an OT at the centre of my set-up and i feel like it would be easier on my already maxed-out brain to stay within the same system/workflow.
oh and yeah the machinedrum looks great but my heart is set on analog
ok. thanks so much @B_LD. this could be important for me to understand. i had no idea that ‘dual VCO’ was a different thing than 2 VCOs. i must say im a bit confused.
are you able to describe the difference?
i guess im interested in what can offer me the deepest control over sound shaping and getting those rich harmonic textures going.
ideally i would love to get my hands on both machines, and just play around but i only have the budget for 1.
Going for the A4 should be a no-brainer then. I’m using both, but soloed the A4 for almost 2 years. Generally, if you’re into a certain level of depth in understanding, browse the manual.
ARs analog engine has a limited set of exposed parameters that you can use to shape the sound. A4 offers far superior and fine grained access to tuning, envelopes, modulations for example.
Here’s my take on this. As with my opinion above, the DCOs from A4 really sound like one would expect from DCOs. The A4 has a way to breath in some “life” to them, but that is as subjective, as the preference for behaviour of oscillators. And I am serious about this point, because my friend loved the way oscillators in my JD-XA sounded, while I had to start every patch with push from an envelope, which - in turn - he hated.
But when it comes to sound design: A4 is a beast. Not only you can create a lot of interesting textures, you can feed one voice into another, having multiple filters and oscillators chained together, up to four voices.
As you can see: they cover totally different territories in majority of their potential, and that is on top of what one can see from the panel design.
i have Rytm Mk2 and tried A4mk2 - for me AR is more fun - A4 is for exploring - you need to spend time if you want to sound design good patches - i would love to have both and pair them together.
sounds like everyone is in agreement that the A4 has much deeper control over sound shaping.
this is the main answer i was looking for. thanks everyone.
still curious about the vcos/dcos though.
and im also wondering why i love the sound of the rytm more in the demos. maybe because of the analog distortion, so if i do get the A4, i guess i will also buy the analog heat to add texture/dirty it up
Practically: DCO can be solid to the nearest clock division of the processor driving the oscillators. Which means that while they output analog signal, they are very precise in nature and the sound is - I’m trying to find good words here - stiff. It’s hard to describe, without showing you in person. You can loosen things up a bit in settings, but I find that some of that quality of oscillators being digitally driven (by the way: DCO stands for “Digitally Controlled Oscillators”, where V is for Voltage) still remains.
And further implication is: do you like that quality? Which is impossible to answer in your name from my perspective. To me, when I hear sustained note from DCO without anything happening (no filter, no modulation), I get ear fatigue within few seconds.
In musical context you will mostly hear the difference in patches that rely on differences between oscillators, as this is where imperfections in tuning are easier to hear (and in some applications - become obstacles impossible to manage - like in FM territory, where too much instability yields unpredictable results). Subtle beating of oscillators is more heard and - to me - more pleasing with VCOs, while DCOs behave better in more “in your face” detuning, like 5th and such. DCOs also are great, when you want to maintain rock solid relation between oscillators, especially if you would like to have tuning octaves apart. That’s few of the examples.
Another thing to consider is application of oscillators to bass lines and percussive sounds. DCOs will guarantee you a predictable results from oscillators side (there is also what you expect from the filters and this can make a big difference, I went thru it with even more digital synth, like Prophet X, when I utilised filters at the edge of self oscillation and the differences were extreme between voices - just to give you an example, why I am not giving absolute statement here). I can’t imagine perfectly working DCO synth to not tune as required, because they are not only tuning precise, they maintain phase of oscillators - that’s how precise it is, by design.
also, for anyone else wanting the basics, i found a simple video demonstrating this. its just as you said, they are both analog oscilators, one is voltage controlled, one is digitally controlled
the voltage controlled one has drift which can be desirable (if you want warmth and imp imperfection), wheras the digially controlled gives stability
it may be the reason that i tend to like the sound of the rytm over the a4 (according to the demos).
i love the sound of VCOs, and like you described, the DCOs sound booring in comparison to me too.
that said, when the detail is so important, i can also see why having that reliablility and accuracy is so important. it would suck to have worked meticulously on the sounds and then when you play them live, they would sound wrong!
if its possible to emulate the vcos in a controllable way, it could be the best of both worlds. i wonder if there could be a formula. i love the idea of the high level of controllability the dcos could offer. added to A4s depth of sound-shaping, this could tip the balance.
The Rytm just has a really characterful sound right out of the gate and “machines” like DVCO or SY Raw that only have a few parameters like a simple analog mono synth. A4 sounds very vanilla at first so you can throw a bazillion sound shaping options at it to make it sound wild.
Which might result in more AR demos that sound interesting because you get these sounds way faster and easier. And many people sell their A4 before they get to know it. I’m one of these more instant gratification simpletons, but you sound like more of an A4 guy. The flipside of AR is that the range of what it can do is rather limited, compared to A4 for example.
