Hardware fun vs. DAW productivity


Doubtful…gigging still exists. I havent seen a drop in the number of live shows. Infact, i see a lot more shows listed than i used.

Please point me to your evidence.

As ive always read and understood, bands never really made money from record sales. Cept’ for the Madonnas and U2s. The label does.
Bands made money gigging and selling merch. This online sales crap is new. And if you dont make money that way, thats no surprise. No one ever really does. Theres millions of people doing it. And its lazy as hell. You get out what ypu put in. No following gained from an online presence, unless your some 7 year old opening toys on youtube (1 in MILLIONS, might as well be Madonna).

Get out, play live, sell shitty t-shirts and get followers. Earn the money. Or just post shit online with the other millions.

Again, you get out what you put in.


Wondering about modular lately too in this regard

Really feel like modular is the flavour of choice for the last decade. And in an unspoken way it’s sort of the current ‘legitimate’ as far as compositional and performance tools go

On the one hand modular is quite experimental, offering tactile and variable ways to explore sound. On the other hand, I’ve often seen artists with huge setups begin to compose ‘music’ on modular setups. Sometimes, that music is amazing. Other times, it barely encroached on the kind of accomplished work one could compose with a daw or perhaps a suite of all-in-one hardware devices.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, modular seems to be the legit way to explore electronics these days. A DAW is pretty much looked down upon. I can think of times where I’ve been at gigs and peers have mentioned the artist was ‘only’ using Ableton. As if patches written in Max or something were more legitimate. But I can remember when everyone being behind a laptop was the coolest thing you could do on stage, it was only once everyone started to tire of that kindve static performance that a tactility seemed to be demanded, but I honestly can’t see much difference between being hunched behind a modular rack or laptop, but it obviously does give an audience something more to hinge on. Still, I dig how artists such as autechre buck the trend and still stick behind a laptop and serve out their sets in the dark

also you feel like modular is part of some gnarlier culture of buy sell swap. the latest modules. soap boxing things. whereas a DAW is a pretty unglamorous and meek way to make tunes imo.

I think hardware boxes are a nice middle ground, but materialism can easily creep in their too.

a lot to be said for just making tunes on a lappy, and an instrument or midi controller Or two, maybe output to a desk for some physicality

I dunno though I kinda love minimalism / less is more etc

It’s amazing what you can do with 4 or 5 tracks


MBM use ableton live…live :slight_smile:
Ae use max live

Two of the best live shows ive been to.


I’m old, who’s MBM?


Meat Beat Manifesto comes to mind.

And I too am old, as is Jack Dangers.

And yeah, to anyone here talking trash about Albini without knowing his work, all I can say is: shame! You need to go listen to Big Black.


Im older… :wink: im pretty sure :sob:

Meat Beat Manifesto. They actually started up in the late 80’s…saw them open for 808state in 1988…good then, good now.

They run their set in ableton. Audio and the video as well. A tweaked version for the video.


not in case of these new online services.
you put in a lot of time & money to do proper studio recordings of your stuff, and what you get back is within the margin of measurement error. that’s how industry now works, and that’s what i was talking about.
before 2008, when music was sold on conventional media, it was not that bad. anyway, smaller labels just did not survive the great recession after 2008 financial crisis, so it became what it is now.

as a conclusion for myself, i build my project as live-oriented from the start. after all, music is about performing, and it does not really need all that overproduction that is common nowadays.

i know enough :wink: 80% of my thoughts about optimal production cycle were originally taken from his interviews and then contemplated in the context of electronic music.

i just wonder where industry became better for artists. because what i see with my own eyes is clearly not.

and regarding DAW-based vs DAWless rig question:
DAW-based setup is more convenient for travelling beacuse of less volume & weight. so, it’s not surprising when artists who’s touring a lot use DAW-based rigs. (convicing myself to start saving money for Pyramid.)


Ya thats not quite what i meant. Making the music is half of it, getting out, playing live, connecting with people and getting a following is the rest. Lots of werk.


oh, yes. totally agree.


I worked in clubs for a long time and so I talked a lot to bands (punk/hardcore, stoner, metal, blues, garage punk etc.) and the consensus was that it’s better for them now.

Services like Bandcamp skips the label completely.They built their following through hard touring, even if that means to play in front of 10 people.


I’m thankful I can still make a living playing music, but there’s no way I’d say it’s better now. There was a time when good enough royalty check could mean a new car or a solid down payment on a house. I’m the past 10 years it’s a fraction of that.
The good news about how things work now is anyone can put out a record. It’s also the bad news in a whole lot of cases


Good news is theres more music out there.
The bad news is…theres more music out there.


so, it’s more & more difficult to fing something worth among new releases. because the number of good releases grows arithmetically, but the overall number grows exponentially.


a problem is that soundcloud and youtube are oversaturated with demos, often not serious efforts

But who am I to judge…


And too many self made “labels”
aka bandcamp page :confused:

[topic derailing?]


yes, but no problem for me… I guess the mods will move it soon :wink:


«Girl, the mods will move it soon».
nice idea to cover «Girl, you’ll be a woman soon».


Sorry this is not true. If you can’t be bothered to get your own evidence before coming out with stuff then fair enough but I’m not doing it for you.

Also, please lay off on the “lazy” patronising stuff there. You imply that I say these things out of some kind of bitterness or something. I made a bit of money from music back in the 90s and did ok for myself but made a conscious decision to follow another path work wise and have music as a hobby. I am simply stating what has clearly been seen in the music industry and is well documented, I do not see how you can come to the conclusion that things are the same as always seeing as the landscape has changed so radically in the last twenty years, and before that was going through continued change anyway.

I do not disagree with your attitude at all though in regards getting out there and making stuff happen, this goes for all walks of life - but you’re preaching to the converted here.


Well, basically being a musician went back to where it was before recording was invented. Playing live for the audience and getting paid.


or not :sob: