Goodbye forever, machines (sort of)

Thank you very much!

The overarching message is to find something that suits you, feels good and easy to do, but also offers nice challenges and still tickles your curiosity. If you’re constantly bothered by your configuration, you should remind yourself that you’re not bound to it and that what works for some, might not for you.

Also, be kind to yourself, going fully hardware should mean expecting to invest at least as much time as for learning any other instrument. You wouldn’t start learning the guitar and expect writing Beatles songs in the first months or even years. But the machines work so well from the get go that we forget that some things still need to be learned, full hardware means learning the techniques and movements that allow for good performances, and this takes time and tedious repetitions of exercices. As electronic musicians we very often forget that, and judge our music very harshly when we are just learning and shouldn’t expect incredible results.

Finally, remember that, apart from being a hashtag for easy likes, dawless is just one of the many manifestations of the “limitations as sources of creativity” concept, it happens in every artform (“one camera, ones lens” challenges in photography for example). It is very interesting, can feel liberating, but if it doesn’t work for you, you’re not married to it, try other challenges that are more stimulating, there are so many you can think of: only use one synth, set time limit constraints, number of tracks, only use samples, only use ONE sample, only use sounds you hate, make music with only melodies/rhythms, etc… The concept is (ironically) limitless, and it doesn’t have to involve buying/selling expensive gear.

And always remember Four Tet:

5 Likes

This is a good place to be with gear, no matter what your tools are.
Years ago I added SlimPhatty to my Ableton rig after years of just the Laptop.
It was immediately obvious the Moog was all classic sweet spot and all of those sounds out of the Moog sounded WAY better than what I had been dealing with.
This led my down a hardware path where I ended up with a Dark Trinity rig and decided to sell the Moog to see if I would miss it.
After about 5 years, I decided I’d get another one and see if I had missed it.

YEP I sure did.
The SlimPhatty just rips through everything else with a big fat classic sound.
ALL sweet spot.

Get something like that, your laptop wont do that.
I understand feeling like you can get Elektron sounds out of Ableton, but classic VCO synths, nah.
Not a SE-02, or and Monologue module, or a Boog
A classic VCO wild stallion, like a MS-20, Moog, Typhon, etc

5 Likes

2 Likes

When you click startup login your password and click on Ableton. Load project,load vst. Update, crash. Load again. Do you want crash report …no. Open project open vast mouse battery need replacing…

In an alternate universe.
Click on DSI Prophet. Lights flash. Load patch. End of.

Good point!

Yeah I completely agree with what you’re saying. I’m well aware and at peace with the fact there’s some sounds I just won’t replicate inside ableton, and what you mentioned is one of them. For the time being I’m not sure that I necessarily need those sounds in what I do though, but over time if necessity must then I won’t begrudge looking into it, something inexpensive like a se-02 or minitaur. My headspace is no longer telling me I must succeed with whatever I buy though, I’ll quite happily buy something, play with it, see if it’s fits, and then sell it without regrets should it not, rather than trying to shove a square peg into a round hole.

1 Like

I loved making music with hardware when I was focused on performing live, but when I got more into songwriting again I got into Ableton and used that with midi controllers for a couple years and had a blast until it started becoming harder for me to turn the laptop on. When I first got Ableton I woke up early and had a blast exploring it every morning before work.

My job is busier than ever now and I feel the need to reduce my screen time, and working on sounds with a mouse isn’t always what I want to do. I started using hardware again earlier this year and now really appreciate having a separate workflow for when I don’t want to use my laptop, which has actually been most of the year. Digitakt and Digitone have been great to work with… I initially looked at them and thought “they do nothing I can’t do in Ableton” but I actually make much different music with them, so that’s where their value lies for me.

Doing everything ITB is very efficient but I really appreciate having more hands on controls again (using a mixer for routing has also been great). Finding a few pieces of hardware that compliment my computer setup gives me a nice balance of fun and productivity. For me, music needs to begin as something fun rather than me just trying to be productive. Hardware helps me with that, and in turn naturally makes me more productive.

Yeah one of my perks of life is I work for weeks at a time then don’t work for weeks at a time, so during my time off (when I get to do music stuff) I have zero screen time outside of that - I imagine my outlook would be a lot different if that weren’t the case.

Yeah, steping away and revisiting later has been really good for me.
It showed me that I only needed a few things to really enjoy making a lot of music, rather than chasing a rig.

Just clarify my earlier statement, there are a LOT of cool modern VCO style synths that sound great but that’s not what I mean when I say “classic wild stallion VCO”
To me an SE-02 is just a faux example, I mean something that makes a fucked up sound electronically when you press a key, and its louder than all of your other synths, and when you ride the cutoff and rez it’s BANANAS in a way a computer can only hope to imitate.

This ^ is what this is…

I was trying to suggest a small piece of hardware that a computer cant do and is FUN!

Sounds like you got your ideas dialed in, run with it.

It’s all about sources of inspiration for me. I spent almost a decade playing about with just a cracked copy of Ableton not really making anything. I bought a few hardware synths and still didn’t really do much.

Bought a Digitakt last year and it blew everything up and it made me interested in music again.
I think having various different ways to make music rather than different flavors of the same thing is key. If you have a poly synth, you’ll probs get more inspiration from a guitar than another poly. If you have a piano, you’ll probably get more inspiration from a modular than another piano.
Obviously this won’t apply to everyone, but to me it keeps the GAS somewhat in check as I don’t want to have too many of the same thing, while also knowing that having many different ways to make sound helps my creativity.

Having said that, I currently own DT and DN and am looking at a RYTM because of scenes and a few other features even though it shares a lot of features with DT (which I may end up replacing with RYTM but we’ll see)

You can do EVERYTHING in Ableton alone of course, but if the inspiration isn’t there then you won’t do ANYTHING.

1 Like

to me the biggest takeaway is that the hardware sequencing and 100% OTB approach didn’t jive with the OP. at least with the OT and A4 (notably boxes that can go quite deep, and be confusing sometimes). but the simple sequencers of the 303 and 606 work OK, and he feels that they have a certain magic sound VST’s/samples don’t. OK… so do what @JuanSOLO is suggesting and sell your OT/A4 for a Moog (or similar), give that a whirl. you can sequence it with Ableton so you’re not annoyed with the sequencing and can keep closer to the workflow you’re comfortable with. you’ll have the cash from selling gear you don’t like; might as well explore a bit and see if you can find any other magic boxes you do.

5 Likes

That’s it nailed!

I have been mostly hardware for a while now, but recently I came around to using a DAW for drums, synths, and samples. Whatever tool helps you get across that inspiration fastest is going to be the best. A keyboard and mouse are pretty useless at that, but if you have a good controller and can work with something dynamic, or sensitive ITB works so well.

Goodbye :beers:

See I’ve battled with this decision myself.

On one hand its so much easier to create a track on ableton and you have so much more control over what you’re making.

On the other hand hardware is more fun and I love having something to GAS over and collect.

I’m still more inclined to just mess around on gear rather than sit with one machine and really learn it inside out. But that is on my bucket list.

I feel like I’ve not given things enough time to decide if I wanna be ITB or out of it but I know that they’re both kinda fun and a hybrid set up gets you the best of both worlds.

In other news. I’m starting a modular system to unlock new possibilities

1 Like

NDLR is very suited for ITB.

Like the old thread, me too :slight_smile:

Once you bounce back and forth a few times you may realize that you don’t need to be so extreme with your choices. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Use each for its advantages. That advantage can be personal too.

I can absolutely make music fully ITB. That’s where I started and what I know. Hardware makes me work differently and gives me ideas for working differently in the box.

Each one inspires ideas in the other for me, keeps me interested, and helps me to constantly evolve how I make music.

Hybrid forever!

3 Likes

There is no tight way to make your art. Do what works for you and brings you pleasure.

I came from hardware in the late 90s, then went to Reason and Rebirth in very early 2000s… and have been using Ableton since to make tracks. Having a few dozen releases this way and being able to play my songs in DJ sets via Serato has been amazing.

In the past five years I’ve turned to making music mostly elektron gear - to play live. I still sequence and master everything in Ableton to turn these live sessions into complete tracks.

3 Likes