Goodbye forever, machines (sort of)

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

At the turn of the year I consciously moved OTB, I had an octatrack sitting collecting dust, a few other bits and bobs, I added an A4 to the mix and thought this was the beginning of MY time.

Nearly ten months has passed, and whilst I’ve gotten fairly adept at using both Elektron boxes and various others (a Space, a 303 clone, a reface cs, a 606, various other pedals), and get something going (fairly) well (in not too long) - I’ve regretfully (or not) come to the conclusion that what i can achieve OTB, I can achieve using ableton - which I’ve used for about ten years - in a fraction of the time, with much better results. This thought has been sitting in the back of my mind for quite a while now but I stupidly assumed that i HAD to use hardware to create the music I’ve always wanted to make. Having had a week or so to think about things, I’ve decided to sell both elektron boxes with immediate effect and embark on the 13" screen sized path once more. And to be honest, I couldn’t be more excited.

Whilst before I was solely laptop based, this time around I’ve decided I’m going to in-cooperate a few bits and pieces and really liked using and don’t think for a split second I could replicate using a mouse, or would be half as fun. I’ll keep the 303 clone, because as much as I tried, and lord knows I tried, I could never replicate beeps and squelches as good as I have done the past little while. I’ll keep the Space because its gorgeous, and I’ll keep the 606 because of the way those hihats sing - the rest (and there’s more than what’s on the list above) - will be gone.

Has anyone else ever came to self enlightenment one way or other, or do any of you’s also think you’s are fighting a subconscious battle?

Secondly, on the theme of things that can’t quite be cracked ITB, does anyone have any suggestions that could be of use? I think with my new monies I’ll buy an FM synth of sorts because clicking and dragging all those operator parameters is neither fun nor sustainable, and I love those damn pads, either a dx100 or reface dx - will be a dx7 after I move house and using space becomes more guilt free (the latter of which i would use as a midi keyboard), some delay pedals, perhaps a BBD style and a volante (or some such), because I do like the immediacy of hands on controls with regards to effects (I also have a zoom 9010). A chorus pedal to throw in the chain (i don’t think this effect is replicated well ITB) (I tend to make acidy, swelly, dubby type of techno-ish sounds), and perhaps some sort of “warmer” - like an analog heat (I still want to be an elektronaut).

Suggestions, comments and conversation all welcome - thanks!

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#2

I’m doing much the same now that one project is done and the next one is just beginning. However, having spent a month or so using Ableton Live almost exclusively, there’s one area where it just simply can’t compete with Elektron: sequencing drums. Without easy access to microtiming, which is so so eloquently done within the Elektron sequencer, everything is either too rigid, or it’s too painstaking to move beats off the grid in the piano roll, and applying swing to everything is just horrible imo. This might not apply to your style of music, of course, but for me it’s absolutely critical. So, I’m going hybrid. I have a M:S but multitracking is a PITA, so I’m going all-in on a Rytm in the next month or so. I figure one Overbridge box (an analog-signal-path sampler and drum machine with pads no less) and Ableton Live will be perfect for a minimal setup with endless possibilities. Also playing simple things in Ableton with the pads and setting up some knobs to control things (like Operator that you mentioned) will provide the best of both worlds. Hands on control, but combined the immense range of options that only modern DAWs and plugins can provide.

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#3

Funny you say that because I find drums incredibly easy to sequence in ableton. As I say I’ve used ableton for quite a while now and every single project of mine begins with drums so my hands do things pretty automatically, I find microtiming a sinch but totally agree with regards to swing, hope all goes well for you! I’m going to get MacBook Air based on the back of your recommendation a while ago too!

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#4

I hear you but you started out your post with saying goodbye to your hardware gear and then ended it with a bunch of hardware gear you’re keeping and others you’re thinking of getting. It feels like you thought about this for a week then started having doubts while writing up your post.

I’ve gone back and forth for a long time and now have comfortably set on a hybrid setup I’m happy with. I work under a few aliases so sometimes I’ll just do hardware for one of them, DAW for another and only my iPad (and DAW for mixing) for another. I realized I went way too OTB in 2015-2018 and by the end I wasn’t making as much music. I had too much. I was overwhelmed. So I decided to not even sit at my studio desk and made an entire album on mostly iPad. This made realize I didn’t need so much stuff. I sold about 80% of the gear I had accumulated. Now I only have machines that serve a particular purpose in terms of sound, workflow, connectivity, form factor, and most of all… fun / joy factor!!

Unless you absolutely need something to realize a project, GAS is a form of procrastination and distraction. Even knowing this, I almost fell into it again the last few days. I bought a kick ass USB mixer then immediately had gas for a sub-mixer so I could hookup everything in stereo into my new mixer rather than mono on some. I drove to a shop 2 nights ago and was about to buy a submixer then it hit me that with the extra cable spaghetti and another piece of gear on an almost overcrowded desk space, I was going counter to my more semi-minimalist desire. It would only complicate my setup and put me back to where I was before: that I had too much crap and felt overwhelmed! Not only that, but this was distracting me from sitting down and learning my new mixer (Tascam Model 12). One must focus and be aware of distractions and escapist tendencies that get in the way of actually using what you already have! :nerd:

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#5

I always play drums via finger drumming on Maschine then 50% quantize once or twice if i want it tighter (never 100% quantize) - it’s magic for me every time.

As for OTB vs ITB - for me the full recallability of ITB and ability to jump around different projects (hundreds) at a moments notice is so appealing to me. I love OTB synths and sounds for playing but i have always had a hard time getting them into actual productions when it’s time to make a song.

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#6

It’s ok to become sick of things. I think I went through what you’re going through now a year or so ago, but oddly enough, here I am again gasing for hardware.

I find it really difficult not to be sick of Ableton, since having used it since 2004 or whatever. Part of the process for me, or at least the excitement, is in working your way through an approach as you discover it.

There are probably many more ways for me to explore Ableton in ways I haven’t in the past, part of the trick there is finding ways to keep it fresh. But then, with Ableton it’s basically arrangement or session.

Hardware can provide an alternate approach, I don’t think it has to marry up with what Ableton or what a DAW is capable of, but what it can do is provide satisfaction in exploring a new way of making music. That might not be the same type of music as one can nail in a DAW, but then that’s half the fun isn’t it?

Lately, my attraction back to hardware is for this reason. It’s not the mouse or the keyboard that’s become stale for me, but I’ve bored of the DAW itself. New contact with unfamiliar interfaces can spark a joy in nurturing new sounds, that perhaps I struggle to find or elicit out out of old habit-formed platforms.

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#7

I think the main point was that I’m going back to a computer based process with a few little bits of hardware, rather than a hardware based set up. I had it in my head hardware would be more fun, more flexible, I would happen upon hundreds of “happy accidents” and to be honest I was labouring against myself trying to convince myself I was achieving any of that. I have thought it out, I know what I want, but there’s always that bit of want-want-want with something new and shiny isn’t there, I just think now I’m much better place to appreciate what I like vs what I want!

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#8

Haha, funny, I used to think an mpc would give me everything I ever wanted and more, I try on occasion to finger drum into ableton with a controller - and dear god it’s horrendous.

#9

I think that was part of the issue why I left ableton to begin with - I thought the fun period had ended, but looking back I think I’ve been mistakening fun for exploration. The awe of what you can do in a DAW has long gone, but I couldn’t imagine myself being in a more creative state than when I’m opening a few instances of simpler or granulator, putting a few midi lfo’s in each and loading a random sample on each - I’ve missed that more than anything probably. I know it’s all possible and infinitely more so on an octatrack but it just wasn’t the same for me. I imagined hardware being more fun and it just wasn’t! Don’t get me the wrong I love immediacy of a good poly, but me not being a music man I’m much more suited to drawing my noise rather than playing it.

#10

Get a bigger screen.
I just tried the opposite. Went from a lifetime of keyboards to FL studio a few weeks ago. After a week I bailed. It was taking forever to do what I was doing instantly with real synths and a Squarp. In the end it’s just a different way of reaching the same goal.
Happy to transfer my FL license code if anyone wants it.

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#11

Sounds like it will be liberating!
Power to you!

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#12

I hear you. I started out pretty hardware focused. Music had always been a textural experience to me from before my electronic music making days the turning of a knob, the pushing of a slider. Never a mouse anywhere in my process.

When I finally forced myself to play with Renoise- it felt parallel to working with hardware- I can’t say why, but it worked.

I’ve got a couple pieces of hardware left- but after so many hours wrestling with I/O and the stress of trying to get it all down- primarily hardware setups are hell to work with

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#13

Hi!
I make reduced simple music.
For me it’s a timeout from computer world - I work fulltime on them.
I like to sequence and soundexplore on those boxes and that keyboard, but when it’s ready for record I multitrack into the daw and make there minor adjustments that I can’t on those boxes.
I guess it’s for everyone a different experience how to produce music.
There is nothing wrongt or right.

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#14

you may want to look into this thread.
Sounds familiar :slightly_smiling_face:

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#15

ITB is great, but the one thing that sucks and is no fun is trying to make plugin instruments and stuff sound better. Analog saturation, and hardware machine timing is a lot of work to try to match while ITB. Hybrid approach like you said with the 303 clone and maybe 1 solid analog synth and a drum machine with Ableton slaving to it might be a good solution. All ITB though is for the birds IMO.

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#16

Yeah saturation I’ll most likely be adding an OTB element to achieve. There’s a distorted type of bass that I adore that I hear in a track I like every now and then which I’m been trying to nail since day dot and have frankly never gotten close to, which i think would be a doddle with something like a minitaur and mf101.

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#17

Now that you posted it I remember reading it with great interest at the time, just as lockdown started it was when I probably used ableton last!

#18

Interesting, I went the other way around, I’ve worked almost exclusively in a DAW environment for a long time (since Cakewalk!) and I’m now making the jump to nonDAW to limit myself and kickstart creativity from those limitations. I just felt overwhelmed with the possibilities, and the creative process I’ve come to enjoy is more improv, expressive etc.

I’ve started with a DT, and I hope to expand from there. I still use iOS to record).

#19

Yeah I plan to limit myself when I’m in the DAW somewhat, I used to baffle myself with possibilities for a while but sort of calmed down a bit in the last year before I went OTB. I think for me I realised it was the process and the application rather than trying to gel together as many sounds as possible, hope it works out for you!

#20

I’m in the process of selling off pretty much all my hardware. Whilst the synths were fun, I realised that I never actually finished anything that I was happy with and always had to bring the sounds into the computer in order to get the sound I wanted. I recently bought a Maschine mk3 and I’m enjoying that workflow atm. I might keep one hardware synth as a bread and butter sound module as it is more fun to turn knobs that click a mouse, but not by much (for me anyway). Ultimately though, whether i have hardware or am itb, it comes down to me and I must stop procrastinating in order to be productive. I need to put in the time to have a fun and effective workflow.

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