we havent abided by a “natural law” for hundreds of years my friend. not to mention the fact that there is no over arching natural law, every species plays the game differently.
Not abiding by it doesn‘t negate it‘s existence.
But ok, for your sake say there is no law that is not made by us humans. Since this implies we make our own rules and don‘t need to abide by anything except through force of power, why would I trust you in general if aversion to lying, steeling, killing, etc all have no basis?
Why would I call you a friend then, if gaining advantage over each other is the game?
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tell you the truth i dont understand this leap. i dont see how it implies we only abide by force of power, that is not the most obvious conclusion to me.
my main point is there is nothing distinctly natural about needing to provide for your lineage. very few species do it, and human society has only started doing that very recently, if we’re talking about societies in “developed” countries exclusively. its a byproduct of focusing on the individual rather than the collective, which is arguably the least natural organization of human society we’ve developed.
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As purely man made laws would come to existence through a concesus of either a majority or a deciding class, an individual that doesn’t share this concensus could only be forced to abide by external pressure.
There is however natural law that I and you for sure know to be right or wrong independent of a human vote, say lying, murder, etc.
No, mothers generally care for their children. The exception doesn’t brake the rule, it only defines a bad parent. If societies concensus is to neclect parenting to offspring, society is wrong.
Problem is humans tend to argue their way out of responsibilitys to gain some form of false freedom.
If thought progression leads to disabling not-human-made law then we are back at the beginning: everything goes.
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maybe i was speaking too generally, i thought we were talking in the context of providing for your lineage financially since that was the point of your first post.
seems you are going very broad to discredit my point when i’m saying that the need to pass your wealth down your lineage, to “keep it in the family” literally, is entirely man made and individually focused. there is nothing naturally beneficial about specifically increasing your families net worth.
so who cares about these manmade definitions of what is and isnt hedonistic, have fun. but obviously, if you have kids, you have a financial responsibility to provide for them. hoarding every penny so they can hoard them for you after you die? not necessary. (i would argue that at this point in human history, simply having children is an act of hubris but thats really off topic)
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This thread has loads of gems of thought so thank you everyone. Love this place.
My main shame is that I should be practicing to get better at piano, general musicianship, and composing in sheet music rather than making drum sounds, beats, and synths sounds that sound like animals.
I’ve spent the last four years doing theory courses, musicianship and singing training, loads of reading etc, lessons on instruments etc but often just escape into the electronic box stuff which never leads anywhere but is a blip of fun because it sounds so good while you’re doing it. But then I often finish and just feel ashamed that I could have spent that time on piano or “real” composition. And the stuff my brain thinks is proper and real doesn’t cost the crazy amount I’ve spent on music tech.
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Right on. It was a long winded response but I’m happy there was something to take away. I do think the whole GAS thing (etc.) does hit on existential dilemmas at the core of it. Like anything, it can be viewed as opportunity to work within a framework and evaluate these things. Any creative pursuit embodies these challenges I think, it’s just this one also folds in a unique flavor of consumerism for an extra challenge 
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Don’t worry, I’m not invested in discrediting you or anything.
That said, it’s obvious for me where you are coming from, broadly speaking.
I just wanted to point out that you can not argue your way out of justified guilt if you know you are hording because of indvidual pleasure seeking and at the same time neglect important things.
If you do not neglect as such, then enjoy…
I’m hording myself btw.
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i guess the mismatch here is what we find to be important things. live n let live as they say~
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Mmmm let’s get back to the topic, shall we?
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Maybe you are fighting something inside yourself? As in, what you are considering “real” composition is not as attractive to your soul as the bleep-bloops you can make in electronic music. Both are music, both are valuable, it’s good to assess in yourself why do you think one is “right” and the other “wrong” instead of investing your time and energy into the “wrong” thing that actually gives you pleasure, fun, and playfulness.
Unless you are trying to be a hired-gun musician for touring bands, or working in composition for stuff that actually requires you to deeply know traditional music composition and musicianship, why would you beat yourself about not doing the “real” thing that you seem to actually not be as keen to do? Embrace what you love right now, expand into it as far as you can go, then maybe later a refreshed motivation to play with acoustic/traditional instruments will come, and it will be useful to have the vast tools of electronic music to amplify the range of the traditional instruments you want to master.
I ask all of that because traditional instruments have a long, looong path to even basic mastery, the misery of that put me off from music for a long time, the fun part would take so long to arrive that I didn’t have the time and energy to achieve it. After I got into electronic music there’s a complete new breath of fresh air in why I want to learn the piano, and it actually made it much more fun to go and sit with mine to practice for a bit. I don’t think I’d have that if I wasn’t having fun making some bleep-bloops.
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A wise man I know once told me he likes to:
‘put on my headphones and listen to bips’
I can relate
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Actually, @Wilshire’s post is pretty similar to where I come from on this. I especially like the concept of tsundoku where you find gems in the stuff you randomly collected. In a musical sense, this would mean taking a second look at what you collected and unexpectedly start working with it well after you bought it or intended to. (I think they call it “a gift to your future self.”) As always, as long as this pile of synths and devices is within your budget, then it’s all fair game in my view.
If you think about it, it’s like anything else in life; when you pay for a subscription to Netflix or a big bundle TV subscription, you aren’t obliged to watch it all. Rarely do you consider the fact that your subscription is funding the 95% of the stuff that you’ll never watch. And remember you’re probably going to be watching the same 6 shows a week as well. This is about fun and entertainment. It’s not a logical, mathematical equation about maximising limited resources. Even a DAW with no 3rd party plugins installed contains far too much stuff to ever be used on a project. As soon as you have one thing - you have too much. I find trying to be objective about “enough” especially tricky, but my brain tends to want all of everything but I then move to wanting to knuckle down.
I feel this is somewhat similar to when I was in bands and our lead guitarist was on constant rotation with buying gear; guitars, pedals and the works. Yep, there were old faithfuls in there. That one guitar, or that one amp. But the rest being in rotation was mostly down to a case of wanting to try it all. So in a sense it is possible to have both. A core collection of stuff you use all the time, and then a group of other rotating players who you got that one time, but now just so happens to be the perfect thing for your project. Why are production bundles popular? In theory they are pointless because no-one with a DAW needs 28 effects or 37 synths. But you might feel that having those options might be nice when you come to make a track. The thing is you gotta step back and pick the right sounds for your project right from the kickoff and forget the rest while you’re working. Next time you might want something different.
I guess both focussed minimalism and tsundoku can actually co-exist (in moderation and within sensible financial constraints for you) If you look at many successful musicians, they will usually rifle through the usual bundle suspects - and it clearly works for them. I’m not being a shill for gear or spending here. What I’m saying is that if a DAW contains too many tools to begin with, I’m not sure that it’s possible to objectively maximise or use all of what you have anyway. Making music is not a game of utility, or at least it doesn’t have to be. If you prefer that route - then go for it. As long as you buy intelligently, and look to try and fill gaps in your candy store of a setup (be that ITB or OTB) rather than stack variations on a theme then it’s all good.
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This is great thanks for broadening my horizons
I feel a bit of gear shame when people see how much I’ve got and I think about actual time of use and how little output I achieve. It’s been collected over 20+ years though so that context is important I feel.
That being said, there’s only a few pieces I have that feel either redundant or in retrospect I shouldn’t have bought because I didn’t end up using them the way I thought I would.
If I were to wipe the slate clean and start again I think I could achieve a smaller and comprehensive setup that I could call complete.
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Shame? Why? I didn’t steal any of my gear of con anyone into selling it to me? Some of my stuff was broken when I bought it and I fixed it up, other stuff was bought brand new in the shop or online. I work to pay for my hobby so where’s the shame in treating myself? We’re all only here once and life currently has a habit of reminding me of that fact.
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I feel shame because I own a Model:Samples and it hasn’t been updated since the end of the second world war and is therefore completely unusable.
Shame.
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I didn’t feel ashamed perse, but I did regret spending tons of money on gear I absolutely did not need. I also noticed the more gear I had, the less productive I was overal (this might’ve just been a me problem but I think many people struggle with this).
Sure it’s cool to have walls of synths you can look at and play with, but less is so much more to me now. It’s almost liberating limiting yourself in some way to focus on actually jamming, having fun and being somewhat productive 
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I resonate with a bunch of comments here, also think I’ve been in and out of some parts of this shame over time.
The main one is similar to this:
I feel a bit of gear shame when people see how much I’ve got and I think about actual time of use and how little output I achieve. It’s been collected over 20+ years though so that context is important I feel.
Even though I have only been making music for some 4-5 years I did feel ashamed of all the gear I had with no output whatsoever to show some “value” out of it. Even more when jamming with friends who are actual artists and don’t have nor need all this gear to create beautiful music…
I feel I’m slowly coming on the other side though, I don’t have a massive collection, all the gear I currently have are used at some point or another. I like having the options, unplugging some stuff out of the synths rack and using a minimal setup for small gigs, or to have fun with friends. Having options has definitely increased the “fun” part to play with, I don’t feel restricted at all by my gear and I constantly find new ways to use them.
Right now I feel much less of the shame and more empowered by what I have, lately my workflow has been so much better with:
- All my Elektron boxes supporting OB can be modulated and processed by Bitwig seamlessly.
- I got a Expert Sleepers ES-9 for my modular that bridged any lack of modules I felt with Reaktor or VCV Rack, I have the modules I wanted for sounds and can modulate them with the computer, or multitrack easily. Add FX, whatever, while still having the connection to physical hardware for inspiration, which is very hard for me to do with just the computer.
I keep ping-ponging between having limitless options ITB, finding new ways to do something (processing, recording, generating ideas) and sticking with what works for me, when I need limitations to dive deeper I can limit myself to the hardware and when I feel “something lacking” I can throw the computer into the mix again to not block my creativity.
The past 6-12 months is when I really feel I started to shed away this “shame” and deeply appreciate that I was able to build this setup, even if I don’t feel I’m “good enough” for all of it, it hasn’t made me feel limited or frustrated in any way, I only feel inspired when I play with it, and to me that’s the most important part.
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