FX loop tut for OT?

hi all, is there an uber awesome video tut on how to get hardware FX loops going?

i tend to panic a bit when thinking about OT sampling, not sure why. still haven’t learned how … i have to prep everything in ableton atm .

hoping to use an Electro Harmonix Q-Tron+, and a Dunlop mxr Blowtorch bassinnovations pedal. neither is stereo…

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I think you´ll need to elaborate a bit further of what you´re trying to acheive?

Example:
External gear output into the Input C/D and back to external gear via Cue Out?
Then… (?)

Tracks or live input feeding the external gear?
Flex tracks (record/playback)?
Thru machines (sequence OT effects)?
PickUp machines (loop)?

All of above in a complex combo setup?

maybe say two options at one time with the ability to have a form of effects Send level and maybe even an effects Return level

assuming you mean OT output–>external fx–>OT input? route your cue outs to the fx, fx back to whichever inputs you have free, and sample away. if you want to use each of the fx independently, you will have to pan tracks all the way left or right to emulate mono. use studio mode to control send level. return level depends on what you want to do with the wet signal… one limitation being you can only control the input gains in pairs (AB, not A and B).

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nice one. makes perfect sense, cheers…

sending an FX send as the Cue Out level. very nice, and hard panning left or right effectively isolates the stereo fields as two mono busses. Awesome.

Cue Out left goes to the Blowtorch. Cue Out right goes to the QTron.

as regards the mono signal coming from either the Blowtorch or QTron, i guess one goes to input A, the other goes to input C.

two tracks, maybe 6 and 7, dedicated to recording the inputs A/B and C/D…
so i guess these should be Flex Recorders that could monitor/pan center/record the two inputs.

or, to not sacrifice any tracks and not record,
maybe just use a mono->dual mono trs lead from both of the stompbox fx units, so that each one’s signal is able to feed A/B and C/D inputs respectively… and then use the internal mixer options to adjust direct throughput volume for each of the inputs.

i think you dont need that Y-cable.

I mean: you can sample only inp A or B separately. (not necessary A-B at the same time)

Inp channels are intended to be also mono sources to feed the internal stereo path of OT.

So you can route back those pedals to inp A and inp B (not C…of course depends on what you feel most comfortable about remembering what goes where…! =)

very cool! yes, i think for sampling inputs using the stompboxes this is the way to go.

also, i really like to play the OT in dual output mode through two channels of a djm800 mixer. this allows for a variety of mixer fx fun and crossfader remixing vibe.

in this situation, maybe using the Y lead and different sets of inputs is going to help on a couple of levels…

as Rhizome mentions, input gains only controllable in pairs.

the output from either pedal could be quite soft or extreme. as the Blowtorch and QTron are both analogue, some of the magic is in the particular volume setting/s in relation to the rest of the effect.

currently, i have to admit, i have yet to sample with the Octatrack. haven’t made a single recording onto the flash card except perhaps if i tapped one of those strange recording buttons or something.

but i do a lot of recording through the mixer and into a Fireface -> ableton … in this situation, hardware effects would be used as part of the mixing journey, adding analogue distortion to the kick drum and snare… or QTron auto filter to vocals.

and so the Y-lead allows that to happen with the most minimal impact … no track needs to be assigned to capture a mono input and turn it into a stereo input, in order for the sound to be heard through both speakers, as the Y lead delivers.

mono to stereo is automatic inside OT, no moves needed except assigning the correct input at THRU machine to look for a mono input instead of a pair.

I understand input GAIN for A/B it’s the same.
so you can go for inp C if the two pedals’ output is really different between them.

Otherwise you can use a generic comfort Gain for A/B then, in Playback page of THRU, the VOL acts more like a gain parameter, but with smaller range, in terms of dB boost/attenuation.

uber choice … aha! yes, the thru machines … it’s been quite a while since i played Octatrack (playing bass in metal bands).
i guess the output level is potentially different between Blowtorch and Q-Tron, in the sense that each pedal is its own world. all the effect dials have an effect on all the other effects rotaries in that pedal.

both are analog effect stompboxes mainly for bass guitar, with the Blowtorch bringing a very contemporary range of overdrive/fuzz options.

the Q-Tron"+" pedal has what they call an effects loop but actually it is an envelope filter. so using reverb in that effects loop will have zero effect, but something like a delay pedal would have a fascinating result on the auto-wah filter effect.

I want to send specific tracks to Hologram Microcosm via Cue Out and route Microcosm’s Stereo Outputs into inputs C and D which can then be played back on a through track. I have set cue mutes track in personalize options.

Works great with a pedal that has stereo in by just connecting it to Cue L and R. However, Microcosm doesn’t have Stereo In, Only Stereo Out. So how would I have to connect and set it up in a way that works with using only Cue L? Do I have to tell every single track to send a center panned signal through Cur Out L or how can this be done?

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You can send stereo to Microcosm and save yourself working out how to approach mono. It’s just a single trs input on the Microcosm: so stereo out of say, Octatrack output via CD to the Microcosm input works fine with the right cable. There is a system setting on the Microcosm to tell it whether to expect mono or stereo input.

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Ah thanks, so one TRS cable out of Cue L into Microcosm should work. But how do I tell the OT to send all tracks that I send to cue out in stereo via Cue L?

Almost, but not quite! Cable out of Cue L & R, into the Microcosm. So, essentially a cable that’s dual mono (for the Octa’s outputs) to a single stereo TRS.

Couple of example cables/adaptors:

Or an adaptor could be used in the Microcosm input:

This is all before factoring in the fact that the Octatrack has balanced outputs…maybe somebody wiser wants to step in here hahaha. That said, the above works for me, using an adaptor for flexibility in what cable lengths I’m using since the Microcosm gets a lot of use in a variety of applications at the moment!

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Ah there you go, I don’t have one of these bad boys yet, but will get some then. Two of these won’t work with pedals that only have mono in and out?

As I won’t buy from Amazon, I am thankful for a heads up if there is anything specific that the adaptor needs to bring to the table for it to work without any problems.

Ithink as long as the T/S plugs are connected to the Octatrack it shouldn’t be an issue. Where it gets to be a problem is if you try to use an insert cable to split one balanced output to two unbalanced inputs.

So I got a Y cable to connect the two Cue Outputs to the one Input of Microcosm which I have set to receive stereo. Unfortunately, I can’t get a good signal out of the Microcosm when using the OT. It works just fine when I use the same method for connecting Digitone or Analog Four to the Microcosm.

Microcosm’s Left and Right outputs go into OT A and B inputs which are set as inputs A B on a Thru track with gain +63 in src settings. Then I send cue signals from OT into Microcosm which should only be heard on the Thru track, because I have activated cue mutes out. This method works perfectly with Specular Tempus, which already comes with two inputs for Left and Right. So maybe there’s the problem?

I am using headphones out of the OT which is connected to my stereo system. When I go into mixer and set the headphone mix all the way to M, I can only hear signals that are not routed to cue. I should be able to also hear the thru track which is playing back all of the Cue Out signals that I have sent into Microcosm. Not happening. The only way to hear the Microcosm via the Thru track is to go into the mixer menu and dial DIR and GAIN to max levels for Main output. However, it’s still rather quiet compared to the signals that are sent to normal main out and not to cue out and Microcosm.

Any suggestions? Maybe it’s enough if you describe your routine and setup for OT and Microcosm @yokermoon? :pray:

Maybe you can play back a mono sample on the OT and record the output that you’re sending to the Microcosm. load that into an audio editor or DAW and make sure the left and right channels are identical. it’s possible one of them is getting the inverted signal from the balanced OT outputs rather than the regular one, although that seems unlikely with the signal path you described.

I guess the Microcosm INPUT can be set to instrument or line level, but what about the output? Is it possible that it’s outputting instrument level not line level?

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Hm, I’ll try and cover things that could be causing you issue:

  • Attenuation of levels - make sure track levels are up on the thru being used as your return - (defaults to 100 or 108 as opposed to 127), see also track volume, also the mixer page provides further means of adjusting volume. I’m no expert on gain staging but there’s a lot of scope to adjust volume at the Octatrack end.

  • There’s a configuration option within the Microcosm to select between mono and stereo input, ensure this is correct.

  • Lastly there is a shift function for effect volume on the Microcosm mix knob - may benefit from adjustment here too and could always save as a preset via user presets

It’s hard to give exact guidance but hopefully these are some helpful areas to look into.

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Finally, I think I found what the problem was. When OT MIDI out is connected to Microcosm MIDI in, reducing a track’s cue volume on OT is also reducing effect level on Microcosm.

Any ideas how OT default settings could cause this behavior and how to fix it? I have also noticed that AF interprets OT slider movements as mod wheel or expression controller by default. Maybe these issues are connected and can be fixed by changing some MIDI sync settings?

I have never used the MIDI sequencer on OT, so I don’t think that’s the reason. Maybe I have placed some CC send there by accident once while jamming.

Edit: Changed Audio CC Out from INT+EXT to INT. Problem fixed. Will this cause any other problems when sequencing DT/DN/AF via MIDI or using effects pedals?