I’ve had the ST almost a year now and have never found a way to stop a tracks sound from syncopating and going in between timed, when play is pressed and the pattern commences, to untimed after several (or more) bars have executed… depending on the FLTR/AMP envelopes this can happen over a shorter or longer period
I’m playing in the 180~220BPM range and even on a fresh new project if I lay a simple 4x4 pattern down on default machines and play without LFOs or any delay/reverb eventually the track audio syncopates and sounds untimed, what I have tried so far:
Trig length set to 0.125, decay 25~35, FLTR adjustments to isolate parts of the sound, AMP envelope hold for 30 cut at 0
Routing through FX block and setting trig/parameter locks with 0/100% probability to try cut the sound before the next trig
Track trig parameter locks to cut the sound before the next trig is played
Tried all different machines, digital and analogue
I’ve made some videos and put on FB to try and get some help from the community but so far haven’t found anything to eliminate this issue I am facing, there must be something I am missing here but for the love of Elektron can’t figure out what it is!
This seems quite strange to me. I find Syntakt has very solid timing for me by itself. The only sync issues I’ve had involved non-Elektron gear connected via MIDI. I’ve also never heard anyone else having problems like this. I don’t say this to cast doubt, I’m just saying it seems unusual to me.
Any chance you could put some up here to demonstrate the timing issues?
Internal sync between tracks sharing the same internal clock source should be a non-issue and is very strange. You’d have a much better chance of resolution with contacting elektron support.
I’d try the normal stuff like update to the newest firmware or reload firmware if you’re already up to date, try setting up a brand new project as a test to make sure you are unimpacted by the current project’s settings, check test mode for errors, unplug any external midi in, and then if tests internally are still failing you could hook midi in back up and try an external clock source to see if it goes away or gets worse, and if you’ve made no headway in those steps, I would definitely contact elektron.
In fact, just because you might have to wait for a reply, I would contact them from the support form in your elektron.se account and then proceed with troubleshooting.
You can also check the syntakt bug reports thread on this forum for similar issues.
Thank you for the replies so far! This is happening using ST standalone with latest firmware… I’ve made a short video using a new project to emphasise what I am experiencing, it’s subtle but I am sure distinct enough for anyone to hear
Have you tried messing with AENR and FENR, the envelope reset settings?
I’m hearing what may be the variation you’re talking about, but I’m not 100% sure. I would love get other folks’ input on this.
Honestly if you hadn’t pointed it out, I don’t know whether I’d hear anything out of the ordinary. That being said, there were countless times in my life where I noticed something subtle driving me crazy that other people didn’t, so I’d love to help figure this one out.
Are you manipulating the release time of the envelope manually with the encoder. just outside of the camera’s view? I see the number changing onscreen throughout the video.
If you aren’t doing it intentionally, then you may have a dirty encoder which is changing parameters on its own, resulting in something audible, but barely audible is how I would describe it.
Anyways, if you’re manipulating a parameter to bring it out, that’s one thing, but if you’re ignoring the release parameter modulating itself, I’d say look in that direction and probably remove the encoder cap so you can see if there’s anything physically wrapped around the encoder shaft.
It seems like that would indicate a hardware related issue and would make sense why it would follow you to a new project.
Does that encoder press in smoothly when you use the push button style functionality or is it stiff?
Are you experiencing these drifts while Transfer is open. The only time it happened to me was when I had Transfer opened and the device connected to Transfer via USB.
Edit : if you operate the ST standalone with no USB plugged in, forget about this.
Thanks for everyone’s input especially those not so unlike myself who’ve also experienced this and persevered without raising an issue, it’s not easy raising when you’re new to Elektron devices, I tried to a couple of times and ended up doubting my skills from the empty tumbleweed posts and seeing as so many Elektronauts are getting along fine with ST, I thought it was just me and a matter of time before I worked out WHY it was doing it so as to workout HOW to stop it doing it…
That being said I’ve been DJing and going to parties for just over 25 years now and I do know a thing or two about timing, it’s easy to notice if something is out of time as sound starts to gallop when it should be trotting, and I’ve been listening to tracks on ST go from trot to gallop throughout ownership
I have played around with the envelope settings over and over, all I manage to achieve is an isolated part of the sound which isn’t entirely what I wanted and inevitably loses time… yes I am manipulating the encoder knob out of sight… no the USB was plugged in so I could output the sound into the phone and record audio unabridged for the video
My next step is to do factory reset, good time for a backup test!
When I want to record audio it’s the Elektron USB cable straight into iPhone camera adapter but this is just for recording, the syncopating occurs independently from the USB as typically I use the ST standalone with just the headphones plugged in
Sorry for the confusion in my writing, I only plugged the USB in this one time to record, otherwise it’s just the ST and headphones, the USB connection is completely independent from the syncopating sounds I have messaged support with the information and hoping the Gods will reply when they’ve had a chance to investigate!
When I’ve experienced these “tempo hallucinations” (where I thought the ST was jittery in its timing, or I was just crazy), I’ve only had the audio cables connected. Its not impossible there is some sort of bug somewhere on the memory side, which manifests as some sort of timing error… But we’d first need to learn how to reproduce this issue 100%
Problem being, these “issues”, real or imagined, occur very rarely IME… So it must be some sort of edge case manifesting this one… if it indeed is a bug… Or then its just my time perception fluctuating due to an unknown brain tumor
am I the only one here who would actually love it if you could make tracks drift in & out of sync with each other ?
truly independent per track time manipulation is something that is largely missing from most standalone sequencers AFAIK ? My Frap Tools USTA (eurorack) does it brilliantly - each track can have it’s own independent tempo setting & the Toraiz Squid is amazing for accelerando / decelerando tricks with it’s Tempo LFO which is also per track…I’d kill to have this sort of thing on the Syntakt
I’ve never been able to find the perfect clock for phasing, did try the ADDAC403 but couldn’t wrap my head around my issues being with the design or with how I was using it.
Yeah, breaking this down to as few steps from scratch will definitely help.
My testing has been quite thorough, I have discovered the time distortions in completely new projects in default state and existing projects after having cleared a track and starting with a new machine in default state, it isn’t hard to replicate as others have tested on their ST and noticed the syncopating audio as well… I’ve tried calibrating and factory reset, and tested the same cases only to hear it persist
It’s interesting that ‘jm2c’ mentioned something to do with memory, I don’t know if this is related but occasionally LFOs will get stuck in certain TRIG modes where the multiplier no longer functions, you have to change the TRIG mode first before the LFO will apply any changes, but for now this is low priority
I haven’t heard back from support as of yet, in the meantime I am going to focus on finding sounds with parameters that don’t syncopate and see if I can work my way backwards from there
Well, the “memory” bit is just my pseudoscientific brain fog… dont read too much into it, just speculation without deep understanding of the Elektron software platform…
It’s an interesting inroad nonetheless, I’ve got have ZERO understanding of Elektron hardware but do have a grasp on mathematics and how sinusoidal functions and Fourier series are fundamental to the sound generating process, which could be affected by memory… as I said I have no knowledge on how Elektron (or any other) gear produces sound other than as an end-user but with some basic research and what I do know about mathematics I have a few assumptions:
Phasing and interference - two (or more) converging sinusoidal waves can cause amp variations, their superposition as well as misaligned phasing of sine/cosine components
Frequency modulation - when one sinusoidal wave modulates another slight changes in modulation can create new downbeats inducing syncopation, or sidebands created by modulation aren’t harmonically aligned
Stochastic processes and domains - randomness in phase distribution for both time and frequency domains can induce syncopating where modulation after the downbeat runs infinitely in response to the upbeat and never closes, this could also explain why sometimes if we apply a ridiculous amount of DELAY/REVERB that the amplitude keeps exponentially rising until we press STOP twice
Whatever seems to be going on I am sure that if it was something which could be resolved, as not everything is resolvable, then we’d be in full control of the phasing process which would add a completely new dimension and a very interesting layer of creativity to play with
I have messaged support with the information and hoping the Gods will reply when they’ve had a chance to investigate!
