Finishing a track

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

Hi!

I am really struggling in terms of how to do a whole track on the machines.
I used to word with hardware before but sequenced everything through cubase and switched to live with plugins later.

So now I am really stuggleing on how to finish a track properly. So far I have nice stuff going within the sequencers but as for variations, buildups etc I struggle using the hardware properly.

How do you guys do it?
I was thinking of recording into ableton, arranging there and importing the bits I can’t do with the sequencers into octatrack.

Any ideas or tips?

Cheers,

Jens

Turning Ideas into Compositions
#2

Make music, which is easy to make by jamming with patterns in hardware. If you need to do really complex arranging, linear software sequencing might be a better option.

I make all of my music by jamming with simple patterns. Combine them in interesting ways, mute/unmute stuff, play with filters, FX and stuff, sometimes add even some live playing on top. I make quite simple techno and house stuff though, no complexity needed.

#3

Finishing is overrated. Playing is where it’s at. When you get good at doing that, record what you play. Call the result finished if you like it, perform again when you feel like it. And so on. :wink:

3 Likes
#4

@ yentz:

what kind of music do you want to produce?

and does it have to sound / function like
certain music you heard somewhere else?

i also went back from working on the screen and any
limitations so far seem rather a relief than a burden,

for example, if i was into constant peak mainstage EDM,
it would be hard to do i guess with my small setup now,
but as i am more into drone, TG, dub, dubstep and stuff like that,
it is supercool to do it on hardware.

so i guess it depends on what you want to do…

#5

Depends on your personal requirements and what you think to be a “finished” track :wink:

In general, you could follow an approach that has been suggested by many people. Get a successful track that you like and try to understand it’s structure. Then try to take the structure (intro, the various parts, breaks, built-ups, ending, the length of the parts etc.) as a blueprint for your own work.

The Elektron sequencers support this. A Bank can be a part, or a pattern can be a part. It’s up to your preferences.

The Elektrons support jamming with your ideas and this is a very important difference to a classical linear DAW approach. I prefer to develop my tracks in phases. Barfunkel is right. Get some ideas into the box and make music. That is exploiting the strength of the Elekron boxes at full potential. This is my starting point of choice. Then, after a while, I get a feeling for what works best.

The next phase is to organise the stuff and in principle I follow the afor mentioned “blueprint” concept. If it has to go quickly into a mixed and mastered track to be released, I record the building blocks from the Elektrons to Ableton Live and continue frome there. If it shall stay on the Elektrons, I tidy up and reorganise my ideas in a logical structure of banks/patterns that I can keep in mind and work with in a live situation. The organising is not much fun on the hardware, but I tend to get creative/chaotic in the first phase, and without reorganisation I would lose overview after a week :wink: To have a dedicated personal logic in the organisation has some advantage.

As for built-ups and special effects for raisers etc. the OT has many options. You can use samples from your libraries but you can also generate them inside the OT. Record a synth sound and mangle it with the effects. Get more effects with the neighbour machines, record this to a second internal track, mangle again, save it out and put it to one of the static/flex slots for later use.

BTW, you can use the song or arrangement features of the Elektrons too. Both compare to a more classical linear sequencing approach.

1 Like
#6

I think that is the way to go but it really does suck organizing on the hardware :frowning:
I certainly have to use a daw in the end for mixing purposes. However ideally I would have performance able patterns in the electron sequencers to perform - like some of you said that is where the fun is.
Now I am still in need for things like variations, buildups, drops etc. which as far as I can see would require their own patterns which would lead me running out of patterns.

Also and that for sure is my problem I tend to copy a successful pattern and end up changing so much that it rarely feels related to the one before.
So I am hanging a bit in between “how much am I going to do performance wise in one pattern and what am I going to spread across patterns”.
So for example I am having a really nice beat going and I just want to change some hi hats or add a reversed cymbal but I am having no pads left for this on my rytm or just don’t want to alter the pattern I am having at the moment.

What am I gonna do?
Do I make a new pattern just for this change?

If so and I spread the track around banks I would take myself the ability to have a whole set going.

So far I thought it would be good to do the patterns in the electrons, record into live, make a track in there by mixing, adding variations etc. and then sample the variations (of course before mixing) etc and use them in the octatrack.
So I could have proper mixed finished tracks but would also be able to have the stuff within the sequencer for live performances.

Musicwise I am doing breaks but also tech house and nu disco.

#7

For live performance and recording you can use different kits (AR/A4) or parts (OT) to make subtle and dramatic sound changes.

I don’t know how complex you are planning to make your arrangements, but we have 8x16 = 128 pattern on the AR/A4 and 16x16 = 256 on the OT. If you are using more than one Elektron box like OT and AR than the options multiply.

Anyway - the OT can host many samples and loops. There is no reason why not to have some variations prepared and ready to go.

#8

Can I also change Sets within a running pattern without a short dropout?
I knew about the parts (haven’t used them so far to be honest) but if I could change sets that would be awesome.

#9

I don’t think so.

Since sets on the OT are an amount of projects and a new audiopool. I would say, also changing to a new project staying inside a set would require to stop the playback for the time of the loading of the new data.

1 Like
#10

Hi Yentz,

there is a simple tip:

Start with Pattern 5, then use Pattern 13 for the next buildup.

Typically a Techno track features two build ups.

So when you constructed pattern 5 and 13, copy pattern 5 to the left. (A1,A2,A3,A4) copy pattern 13 to the left and right. (A6,A7,A8,A9 etc) A14, A15.

Now, remove elements from your copied patterns. Copy some elements from A5 also to the right, till you replace everything with elements from A13, which was your 2nd buildup.

I.e. make the melody a bit more sparsely /or remove it completly from A1,A2 ,A3

Introduce more rhythmic /melodic elements between A6 till A13.

When you removed elements, then think about how to transition in an interesting way from each pattern. Think about how dramatic this transition should be.

Now use the OT Arranger, and repeat the patterns as needed, so you could time your transitions.
Begin with slow transitions, i.e. repeat the patterns 4 or 8 times in the arranger, then try out what happens if you transition faster.

Normally you use a section to highlight a certain element.

Experiment with breaks, i.e. is the single element that is running still interesting for the listener.

So each Bank can have 4 “Kits” err Parts. As the pattern stores which part it uses, you can have an “intro part”, “middle part” (where you merge A5 and A13 build up) and for example a part where you setup sampling /experimenting duties.

Per project, you can have 8 arrangements, that would mean 8 songs, no need to switch projects.

I would love to hear other approaches.

2 Likes
#11

Thanks, this is a very good idea. This kind of structures is straight away and helps keeping focussed and not loosing myself in new ideas.

:+1:

Sorry I was thinking about a kit but writing a set. I am on the couch and on Aspirin complex right now. :zonked:

#12

I finished way more when OTB but that was more down to how difficult I found it to make things sound “pro” and gave up! When ITB it’s much easier but you have to be careful not to get sucked into the whole black hole of tweaking for the sake of it.

#13

@Sternenlicht

thanks, that seems to be a good idea to get a track organised from the beginning. Will try out this method myself …

#14

I think a lot of people, including myself, struggle with the same issue. I also agree with others who say that it’s better to just keep things simple. I came to this conclusion myself, recently.

We start to think that everything has to sound like it could be played in an arena with thousands of people. But that’s not realistic, nor is it the goal for most hobby musicians. For example, most people who play guitar are content with their time just playing, and don’t have this pressure to make their jams into something that sounds like a world class recording! They just play.

I too have fallen into the trap of trying to make my music sound pro, with lots of layers and changes, but it becomes super tedious and tiresome, and I don’t believe a person can ever achieve the production value that a computer can easily achieve, by using a few pieces of hardware. It’s a trap because you get caught trying to perfect all these little things, and forget about the simplicity and immediacy of hardware, which is what probably brought most of us to hardware in the first place - like someone who just grabs their guitar and starts strumming just for the simple joy of it.

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#15

Everybody’s different but creativity is universal.
I make music the way I paint > No plan at all > NO FIXED GOAL = TOTAL FREEDOM !
On the way I’ll build out structures offcoarse and eventual goals show up in the distance now and than- many of these disappear again and some cristallise. Sometimes everything just gets stuck - like water in a stilstanding pool and everything dies, but sometimes the water finds a hole to suddely continue it’s journey .
When I become to entangled in a specific system of working, the enormous energy that comes with creativity disappeares. :astonished:

#16

The question is: how is your approach to finishing tracks, how can someone do it in an artistic manner?

#17

Artistic Manner ??? What do you mean ?
The track or painting tells me when it’s finished - sometimes that never happens. :slight_smile:
I always had problems with the word “art” because it can be defined in a million ways.
What I like with the Elektron-instruments is that things are never really finished… I can change or add stuff as long as the memory isn’t full and not one session sounds thesame with all tweaking and live-sequence variations. But I do have a sort of " now it’s finished " feeling sometimes - that is when I feel it’s ready to use in a live-set.

#18

To the OP:

I think you’re confusing hard work with proper tools. To me, it sounds like you’ve got the tools and you know how to use them. And you have a desire to finish things. But you’re struggling, and you’re looking for an answer that’s outside of yourself.

But you’re never gonna find it there.-

Finishing something requires hard work. Inspiration is not available on tap. You alone can finish your track. No additional gear will make this happen for you, no tweak in your workflow will enable something that isn’t already there.

You need to sit down and get the job done, if finishing is what’s important to you. There are no short cuts or secret formulas to this. You need the hours and the dedication and you need to endure when it gets hard, and resist the temptation to look for a fix beyond your own dedication.

But you should also ask yourself - is it important to finish stuff?

Because I agree with vos, there are many ways to approach creativity and the end result is only as relevant as you decide it to be.

Perhaps you’re struggling with this, because completing a track is not as important as you’d like it to be, whereas just making the music is all that matters.

I myself prefer to finish things, but I have friends that do quite the opposite, and there are days when they are happier than I am.

3 Likes
#19

When is a track finished?

There are two perspectives that might be of interest:
first… the artist … and second … the audience.

If the artist wants to please the audience, he may consider, what the audience is expecting. Will it be a more or less a mainstream like track to listen or to dance to, or something vanguard and extraordinary. To please the audience, the expectations should find a way in the structure and mood of the track. If this is completed, the track might be called “finished”.

If the artist ignores the audience, he soon will play alone on stage, but if he embraces his audience, he will generate a great experience for everybody.

If there is no audience but the artist himself, well, there is no rule.

Hope my post was not too obvious or trivial :wink:

1 Like
#20

This is a great point, I always stride to finish what I start and in the end it comes down to hard work and hours spent. Some parts feel like a chore. Working with an OTB setup can be a bit slow when you are trying to get a full song going and not just one repeating loop.
I arrange all my songs on the MNM and use Song mode once I have enough material going. Takes a while to sort things out but once I like it I just sync to my DAW and record each track one at a time, after that I do some automation add a few plugins maybe multitrack some parts.
Sounds boring as hell but making beats is not all glory. In a world of hype and marketing we are all led to believe otherwise. Keep your eye on the prize and give it your all!