I really really like the hmm adlib
1 Like
Happy Belated MF
1 Like
do the pork chop fool!
For the German speakers out there, definitely worth checking out Disarstar. New album August.
hilarious.
1 Like
Comparing rappers from 20/30 years ago to those of today is impossible: in the '90s and early 2000s, the technique was shocking. Nowadays, the trend is to rap poorly, so going out of sync, mumble rap, and extreme autotuning on the vocals are an explicit artistic choice. I guess it has to do with a search for authenticity, with an anarchic drive conveyed by musical vandalism; today, trap music has a punk attitude.
In my opinion, you can’t say “rappers were better before” or “trappers are better now”: they have opposing styles, that’s a sign of the times.
That’s some gold right there. The girl playing the Rapp Snitches riff on the midi keyboard melted my jaded heart
1 Like
Just curious do you only feel that way about rapping skill, or do you also feel that way about guitar skill, violin skill, piano skill etc… not talking about esthetic but actual skill of craft, for example I’m a prince fan but he’s written many songs I don’t like and can’t listen to, but I’ve never not been able to recognize his virtuoso guitar skill?
You mentioned autotune, I believe you can compare the skill of a singer today who cannot sing without autotune to a singer from the 90s/ 2000s who could sing without autotune… I agree with you about all of these things being a choice but everything is a choice, someone who cannot sing making the choice to use auto tune doesn’t change the fact that they cannot sing, anymore than someone who can sing using autotune does not strip them of their singing skill set imo.
In the 2000s, hip-hop completely ceased to be underground, it ceased to represent the metropolitan suburbs (if you prefer, call it the ghetto): hip-hop had become a Billboard chart-topping genre. Successful hip-hop artists of that era lived in luxurious mansions located in elegant neighborhoods: Dre, Snoop, Eminem, etc. (certainly talented and multimillionaires), represented what I wanted to be, but not who I really was.
Trap music was born as a subculture of hiphop, in fact, it is in direct opposition to it: trap music rejects the corporate nature of the mainstream, it promotes anti-establishment views, authenticity, and a do-it-yourself ethic. The key is to bridge the gap between artist and audience. The stylistic code of trap music is based on: "I express myself like I’m high on crack,in the hood with my bro’s ”. This concept is conveyed both in the beat and in the singing style. The artist/audience transfer flows perfectly, it works so well that it has been also absorbed into the suburbs of Paris, Johannesburg, London, Mumbai, everywhere. Looking for breaking news from the ghetto, I listen to trap music, rap is dead and buried
Nothing new, it’s all happened before: Punk vs. Rock
I was looking for Imbroglio on Bandcamp, and found another act with the same name. No disappoinment 
I think it’s clear that we are not talking about the same thing, as I am talking about musicianship, craftsmanship, and skill… you sound like you are talking about pop culture… but I think that the point you are making is the same point that math Hoffa was making in those videos, his point was those artist should have performed their music/ artistry under the label of what it is and what they represent instead of being presented as something they are not, and I agree with you both.
Where you and I differ would be in the analogy of this happening before and being like punk vs rock… nobody ever misrepresented punk, and nobody ever claimed that when someone who played guitar in a punk band but couldn’t actually play guitar that they could… or claimed that any punk vocalist who couldn’t actually sing could sing, on top of that the artist themselves never tried to misrepresent themselves or present themselves as something they were not real punk bands bragged about the truth they didn’t claim to be rock bands or claim to have skills that they never had, that is why this has never happened before, the same can’t be said for what those xL. Clips represent.
In my opinion for some unknown reason hiphop as a whole has been gaslit by so many people from so many angles into thinking that it can’t have its own representation, as if there’s just not enough respect or slots to go around and everything has to all be considered one thing, instead of two, three, four, or five different things like you and Hoffa think, it’s not the same thing/genre that much is obvious so collectively it should’ve all never been thrown in the same bucket…. Punk and rock have that respect for each other… hiphop and what ever xL are doin don’t have that respect, on the contrary it was disrespectful to even call it a cipher.
As far as hiphop being dead and buried I thought that was cute and funny, I don’t doubt it’s dead to you but it’s certainly not dead to everyone (the true death)… just like rock is not dead… I can tell that you and I come from different branches of the experience because what you called underground was what we called gangster rap and later on pop, what we call underground rap music wasn’t gangster rap, we had gangster rap, rap rock, pop rap, r&b rap, underground, backpack, and conscious rap battle rap,real freestyle rap, country rap, and all of it very distinct.
We’ve always had enough respect for the art form as a whole to not lump everything in together and to acknowledge each genre for what it is, hell even horror shock and noise rap get their proper respect from the people who give proper respect to such things because there is a place for everybody, unfortunately in an industry that lacks proper respect and knowledge and only seeks to exploit that doesn’t always translate very well., that’s why Hoffa was saying that Red Bull is representing the cipher art form better than the people who are supposed to be representing the cipher art form themselves, xl was using the clout of the cipher art form as a cloak for something else which is inauthentic, the last thing any real punk band ever wanted was to be represented by a the cloak of something else, that would be fake.
I understand where he was coming from, his genre is the battle rap art form, also not dead, but in all of these different disciplines the one thing that has endured all the way from gangster rap to R&b rap is the acknowledgment of whether someone could actually rap or not, nobody ever respected someone claiming they had mic skill when they didn’t in any of the art forms until now… I love music too much to discriminate against it, I may not like everything but I respect all of it, none of it deserves the disrespect of deliberately being misrepresented and all thrown in one bucket without the compassionate care of all of these art forms individual ethos, that would be like saying all tattoos mean the same thing, that’s corny😁
2 Likes
Honestly co-sign this 
-and really well said imho. Both captured a lot do my own thoughts and added more I had not even considered. Hence why I found Hoffa’s comments both funny af and on point. I also feel he was pretty open and fair. I would also add this is not an old head vs new jack thing neither. I want to hear bars no matter what and in any language, from anyone who values what this shit here is and has been. I don’t feel any hate for this cipher but found it fundamentally unserious save for Samara Cyn - she can rap full stop. But again I respect varied opinions. (Also Your avatar is from “The Gods Must be Crazy” right? Or am I tripping - been meaning to ask)
1 Like
yeah I think he was fair, I might not have said it how he said it but he was caught between a rock and a hard place because if he hadn’t made it clear “if you don’t do this then don’t do this” he would have been giving license to the disrespect and that would have been a disservice to both genres involved… He did’t claim they or what they do shouldn’t exist just that it was platformed incorrectly and really shouldn’t have even been in a space for someone like him to speak on in the first place…like it could have been country music and it would have made the same sense… although even country rap these days does not disrespect the skill set, country rappers strive for bars as well.
I’m glad you made a point to mention the old school vs new new school mythos as well, we can never bring up that myth and sad excuse for reasoning enough imho… and different languages too… you were dotting i’s and crossing T’s… much appreciated.
1 Like
Of course man. Appreciated the video - was feeling off last nite and honestly enjoyed his take. I also this this point is a critical one and not often stated explicitly:
1 Like
I didn’t fully understand your post (my English isn’t perfect: I read and write with Google Translate). From what I gather, you’re mistaking technique for talent. I’ve never believed this point of view; in fact, complexity often makes the message harder to absorb. What I’d like to say is that today, the CNN of the ghetto is trap music. It’s obvious that in the whole hodgepodge of daily releases, a lot of the music is weak, but that doesn’t weaken the trend, which remains very strong.
We may or may not like this, but it’s a fact: when it comes to telling the present in real time, Trap is the shit. Old-school rap music (gangsta, bombap, etc.) is completely off the radar.
i think your english fine, you’re conveying your message clearly, and with conviction the reason we are not connecting is because we are not talking about the same thing after all…
First of all i’m not talking about talent or technique… I’m talking about skill… there are many rappers with techniques and talent that I don’t care for, those things are more so on the subjective side… I’m talking about their level of rap skill, and more importantly their intended level of rap skill…
I’m also not talking about who or what the cnn of the ghetto is, however on that note I will say this I don’t know how many ghetto’s you’ve been to but gangsters are not the only voice of the street, neither is drill or trap music the only musical art form that has license to represent the street or the ghetto… there are less trap artist and less gangsters than any other demographic in any ghetto so that level of representational claim isn’t mathematically supported, at least in my experience of course I haven’t been to every ghetto.
I also am not talking about complexity when I say skilled, you can be extremely skilled at your craft but not be complex.
anyway now that I think I understand where you’re coming from better it wouldn’t make much sense to take it further unless we agree to get on the same track, but I will say this lastly and ask you to think about this point because it really encompasses my whole opinion… there are many artist making the style of music we have been discussing today and yesterday that claim, boast, and make a core point of their lyrics that they are not even rappers, it’s one of their most popular buzz lines often something like ‘i’m not even a rapper, or I don’t give a f about this rapshit’ etc… if you listen to trap as much as I have then you’re familiar with this…
well my point is I agree with them, when it comes to mic skill they are not about that life and they’re not ashamed to make sure you don’t get it twisted, they are about another life and don’t care if you know it… So what I’m saying is they don’t have that skill set, and I don’t think they should be platformed by institutions that were meant for platforming not only rappers, but the elevation of skilled rappers…
I’d say the same thing if xxL had michael jackson or john lennon in the cipher…
I’m not claiming they don’t have a voice, or talent, or something to say about their neighborhood that would be nonsensical i would never make that argument, the point of the videos and my point is that there is a place for everyone and all types of artistry in theory but unfortunately when it comes to hiphop there are few and far inbetween (not enough), they should have been on an trap platform, they don’t need any clout from hiphop platforms and they don’t need any other art form to be a conduit, they can be their own conduit… they’re very popular and well funded.
and like hoffa said why be on a platform where all of the discussion is going to be about how they can’t rap, when they don’t even care about the fact that they can’t rap, what kind of sense does that make?
That was irresponsible of xxL but maybe
they don’t stand for what they originally stood for, or maybe they never really cared, all of that is their right but they are still using the credit they’ve built up from their original mission statement.
In regard to boom bap, I think the musical world might be a little larger than your giving it credit for, boom bap is still extremely popular and this is not to take anything away from the popularity of trap music but there are two things to consider when attempting to make the case that it’s a new frontier that has somehow killed boom bap or buried it… 1. Trap is not something new, it’s musical foundation of 808s and hi hats actually pre-date boom bap, without the current lyrical content trap was just called rap music in the early days before so it’s not as ground breaking as you might think, and if going by timeline is actually older than boom bap.
And secondly you have to remember that the leading rap artist today in terms of sales and numbers are neither trap artist or boom bap artist, therefore you can see that trap music does not represent the be all and end all of everything.
anyways I understand what you’re sayin, I hear ya, … it’s not what those videos were about or the point hoffa was trying to make nor my point… btw what’s your native language cause your grasp of english is better than you think?
thanks to this thread I’ve been introduced to MF DOOM and this is amazing stuff, I’m not a hip hop/rap fan but the music and his voice as an instruments are incredible, I tried listening to other stuff like Kendrick and while there’s some good stuff in good kid maad city, to pimp a butterfly and mr morale (fucking love the worldwide steppers song) I don’t really connect with the majority of the stuff.
also tried The Alchemist and while I love the music I don’t really connect to the rapping part of it, it’s nothing like DOOM’s “in your face vocals” and I don’t understand most of it anyway, but I absolutely love his music, broken rhytms, amazing loops, etc., even inspired me to try doing some sampling/beats on the rytm and I loved the process, there’s a lot to learn from doing “beats”.
are there other artist like DOOM that have let’s say “unique” music, with emphasis on unique, broken rhythms, dirty nasty drums, stuff like that?
2 Likes