Hi there, just purchased Faderfox PC12 to control midi hardware of my, now a quite a big, studio setup. However, I feel am not getting design concept for routing behind it. There are 2 midi DIN inputs and outputs along with bidirectional USB in/out. Midi messages which goes to midi inputs are routable to individual midi outputs - that’s OK. But there is no way to route internal midi signals (pots, buttons, encoder) to individual midi outs - midi is routed to both outputs and this can not be changed. Let’s say I have 2 setups - first goes ONLY to output 1 and second only to output 2. This way I would be able to create 2 separate midi paths and have basically additional 16 midi channels to work with. This is standard behaviour for all my midi gear with multiple midi outs (eg. Squarp Pyramid - 2 separate midi outs, Oxi One - 3 separate midi outs, Hapax - 3 midi outs etc.). Why there is no such possibility? Am I missing something?
I am assuming that it’s because you can route each midi channel to any output you want. I guess tat it depends what midi channel are listening your devices. If you send from midi out 2 a midi channel 8 signal for example and you don’t have connected in midi out 1 any device that listens channel midi 8 you only have one device working.
For me if I’ve been understanding your post, it’s normal that it mirrors the 2 midi outputs of PC12. The secret is configuring the destination synth or drum machine or computer…
Maybe hapax or oxi or others behaviours are different but I don’t see much inconvenience in how it works PC12. You have 16 midi channels that you can route to whatever you want.
Thanks for your reply, maybe I was not clear enough in my original post. Exactly as you wrote, PC12 does have 2 mirrored midi outputs and that’s the issue I am talking about. It’s basically the same as connecting a midi-thru box to one of midi outputs - that’s not very useful.
Let me explain it in this scenario: Let’s call the first midi output MIDI OUT A and the second midi output MIDI OUT B. Let’s also assume I configured two setups, SETUP A and SETUP B, and I want to switch between them during live performance.
SETUP A is configured to send midi messages (I mean internal midi messages, not those which can be routed from input DINs) ONLY to MIDI OUT A. Let’s say SETUP A is programmed to send midi to OCTATRACK on channels 1. - 8. and to RYTM, channels 9. - 16. (via midi thru box or MIDI thru from OCTA as for now we use just one PC12 output). There are 2 destination devices connected to MIDI OUT A, all midi channels are already used.
Now, for SETUP B, I want to connect MIDI OUT B to another midi-thru box (or any kind of midi router) and route it to another 16 completely different Synths.
Each synth will have its own midi channel 1. - 16. This way, I’ll be able to operate 32 channels altogether, not just 16 when both midi outs are mirrored. I will be able to switch between SETUPS A and B in real time and send CC to any of 32 channels.
Unfortunately, from my understanding, this is not possible.
The only device I’ve seen doing that is oxi one, it has 32 channels if I remember. I have lots of gear and all works with 16 channels.
OXI One has 3x16 midi outs (A,B,C) = 48 channels, completely routable. Hapax has 4x16 outs (A,B,C,D) - all routable, 64 channels in real time, Pyramid has 2 separate outs…32 channels routable. At this price point, PC12 should have this option too. My fault, I should read the whole manual first. Thanks anyway.
It happens to me too sometimes. I read the manuals before purchase but always there are some thing that didn’t know when I buy the controller… You need another PC12 hehehheh 
Yeah, I suspect that not implementing internal routing to both ports is intentional—so you have to buy another one 
If you’re serious about buying another one, maybe consider something like 3 or 4 LCXL’s and a MIDI router instead.
Many advantages that way, flexibility included.
I’m rocking 4 LCXL’s myself. Might add a 5th at some point!
You should write to support. Who knows, maybe this feature has just been overlooked.
Right, I am not going to spend another €700 (that price is actually crazy) for a limited MIDI controller. The LCXL is already a classic, but I miss having DIN connectors. With the PC12, I was really hoping I had found the ultimate MIDI controller for my studio. But… it’s not
Yeah, I’ll give it a try
Searching for the holy grail!
This matters less with good MIDI routers etc. I’m using two Iconnectivity boxes, loads of DINs and USBs for everything. Plus RTP MIDI over Ethernet which is useful for sending large amounts of data without choking etc.
The Iconnectivity boxes have really good filtering and routing options too.
I looked at the PC12, looks okay, but for me what’s missing is LED’s for each knob. This is super helpful if you’re using multiple pages, to remember what each knob does etc and for grouping sections.
If you do get a LCXL and want to dig in a bit deeper, hit me up for info, there’s some undocumented stuff you can do, for instance:
Change pages remotely (handy for changing multiple LCXL’s at once).
Colourizing the Factory pages (you get 8 User pages and 8 Factory, you can’t change the colours with the Factory pages - except you can, with Drambo. Can send you the Drambo Project if needed).
Making the buttons/pads light up - can get multiple colours/shades, can make radio buttons that cycle through states, on/off for mutes etc.
Sending 8 user pages to the LCXL in one go, in case you need to quickly reconfigure everything on the fly.
Most of those are done with CC’s so can be done with any MIDI processor, I use Drambo for this personally as it doesn’t require any scripting.
There’s a lot of functionality if you dig in. Build quality is good too, my 4 have lasted and work perfectly still, and 2 were bought 2nd hand.
Unfortunately, din midi is not a large market and Faderfox is possibly the best out there. I’m not sure there is any midi controller that does what you want, and those two midi outs are probably just coming off the same pins on the main board, so I doubt they will be able to change anything thru a software enhancement. You may just be looking for something that doesn’t exist.
I think the opposite: MIDI DIN has become a standard again for all synths, FX, and any serious studio hardware released in recent years. Every new device should have it—at least in the TRS version (which is kind of messed up with Type A and Type B). Everyone knows there are multiple issues with USB MIDI (ground noise, latency if connected through a PC, and the need for a MIDI host for a DAW-less setup). On the other hand, there are some advantages: it’s bidirectional, and you can implement multiple virtual ports through one connection. I think it’s nice to have both. When I saw that the PC12 has two MIDI out ports, it never occurred to me that it’s not possible to route them individually. My fault; I should have read the manual more carefully. I am not a technician, but if there’s a possibility of external routing through MIDI INs, it should be possible to implement internal routing as well, but don’t take my word for it. I know there is the Electra ONE MKII (https://www.electra.one) with multiple routable outs, a big screen, for a lower price than the PC12 but with fewer knobs. I should definitely check this out.
Definitely would be nice!
I have a cheap little box which does this for one USB device, perfect for a tiny setup. Anything bigger, and a proper router is the way to go, even for small/medium Dawless setups.
True! My rule is DIN for synths, USB for controllers. Keep it separate! Latency is less of a problem than jitter. But as a rule I won’t send note data down USB or RTP. And fuck MIDI clock except for clocking delays, FX, etc!
Been some interesting developments in controllers recently. Like knobs built into a screen, haptic feedback, etc.
Future’s looking bright!
Yeah, I understand your expectations concerning all the devices that come with tea midi these days. I guess I’m just being the Debby downer and stating the obvious. Very few controllers come with TRS or din midi, so you don’t have as much choice on the controller front.
I just built my own midi controller with a DIY board for this exact reason. If you have the time and patient’s DIY is a good way to go. Unfortunately having two different controllers in one would require two boards, but it would be possible, just a lot of internals (two boards and loads more wiring). After building a controller, I understand the rarity. I could imagine how hard it would be to please everyone. Every set-up requires a different tool set.
That touch screen controller looks like your best bet, if it has two separate midi outs like you want. Something like that has the advantage of being more flexible, being that is a virtual faceplate that you can change.
So, in that case, it seems better to get two EC4 instead of one PC12?
Check the Electra.
Knobs vs Encoders vs Faders… all completely different, different pros and cons, different way of doing things. Personally I won’t use encoders for live jamming. Fine for producing/tweaking ofc.