Damn… they even got Bob Dylan
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It must hurt to even think like this…
I just stepped on a squirrel. 
I didn’t mean it, he came out of nowhere! He’s ok though, I’m uninjured as well.
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I don’t think this is ambiguous at all: I think Don’s heirs are concerned–and hurt–that the people who exploited him when he had medical bills to pay are still involved in the company and benefitting from the use of his name.
That’s very different from “are Don’s former colleagues working on the new products” or “are reissues ‘true to Don’s vision?’” (the latter answer is clearly no–he didn’t do reissues–but lots of people want them).
One can love the instruments and respect people like MEMS and still acknowledge that people with ownership stakes in the company were part of BEMI, and BEMI’s track record is publicly documented.
The fact that some people are excited about BUSA products or that good people work there in no way changes the facts about its owners’ relationship with his family.
This is the last I’ll say on the matter in this thread,. If you have questions, I’m available for DMs.
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My Dad was a Bevin Boy. Worked in the pit at Cannock 
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it makes a difference if folks just soldering circuits and building modules worked at BEMI and BUSA versus stakeholders for both, is all I’m saying. a quick MW search says it was claimed in 2018 to be the latter. again, news to me.
It’s a question which seeks to identify whether the poster is ethical rather than to question the ethics of the synthesizer industry. The thesis statement is from the perspective of an ethical person making conscientious decisions and asking if you consider the ethics of synth manufacturers, but you can just cut out the synth manufacturers, because the underlying question is are you ethical in your considerations of these things.
That’s why I don’t feel comfortable with these types of discussions, beyond the original intent, this is a public forum and judging each other for our purchasing ethics leads to shaming each other for our decisions.
There may very well be a valid discussion to be had about the synthesizer and music industry as a whole in their ethical practices and green policies, just as there was a valid discussion as to the industry and whether or not it takes an ableist position against those with disabilities.
But in this context, the discussion doesn’t work, because we aren’t approaching it from a third-party stance, this starts with a statement about a person’s personal beliefs and their own practices and posits the question “is this something you consider too?”.
I’m just not interested in trying to disentangle the subject from the context. If there is a discussion, I don’t feel that this is the way to have it. Maybe I’m the one who’s wrong, but this is the kind of powder keg I don’t prefer to be involved in, and that’s all I have to say.
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BREAKING: THERE’S NO ETHICAL CONSUMPTION UNDER CAPITALISM
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I effin love you @shigginpit and @KingDuppy
@Strutter too!
Eh, why not. @orionka can get the love too.
Just for the thought they put into responses for the sake of civil discourse.
(My responses were too reactionary, so I took them down)
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Good heavens, what have I started.
Some of you reacted constructively, some of you reacted in an unfriendly, dismissive way. The latter of you, knock yourselves out. I was only fricking asking a question. It wasn’t intended as a judgement; I just wondered if anyone else factored this in or had anything to share on the subject.
To those who it’s all academic or don’t take life too seriously, that’s real easy to say in a privileged position. And of course it’s always easier to keep your head in the sand and blame the guy who brought uncomfortable questions into your “vibe” - perhaps don’t read the thread in the first place if you know that’s what it’ll do to you.
Honestly, a little put off Elektronauts after this. I’ve always found it a (mostly) friendly place. Didn’t mean to start a flame war, but I perhaps should have known it would do.
Over and out.
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I love John too! Such a tragically beautiful soul. So glad he righted hisself.
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Kind of by accident really, a long time ago (30+ years). It’s a long story, short version I had experience of working in rough parts of the world in my first few jobs and gradually moved from those into sustainability and corporate human rights and it kind of grew from there. Most of it learned on the job… the more you do, the more you understand what to look for and how and why bad shit happens. You also learn about transparency and disclosure… it is so important for companies to be up front about all of this, it builds trust and it also sends a signal to suppliers that bad practices aren’t a smart idea.
These days there are good sustainability and human rights academic courses people can study to understand the principles then get a job in research and/or fieldwork with specialist consultancies or in-house teams running their own audit programs.
The key thing is you’ve got to be prepared to get mud on your boots. An important part of the job is all about asking awkward questions in difficult places, and not taking much (if anything) on trust when you’re in a part of the world where life is tough. Also understanding the data, and being able to challenge clients/your bosses when they’re closing their eyes to stuff they should not ignore. It can be bloody hard work TBH but it is never dull.
That said I’m getting too old now to do the stuff I did when younger - it can be v demanding - and that plus health issues mean I’m not on the road now. Upside is I have time to make music after years of never having enough time.
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I appreciated your question. It is questions such as these that keep me coming back to Elektronauts. It cannot just be all “when is the new OT coming,” 'Takt new feature requests, and “which sequencer is the best,” wankery.
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FWIW I think it’s a good and important question.
- I don’t buy stuff from Behringer.
- I don’t buy stuff from JHS, even though I lust after some of their pedals. I’ve unsubscribed from their YT, too.
- I don’t buy food from Wendy’s even though they’re by far my favorite fast food, because they’ve used slave labor for decades even after other fast food brands stopped.
- I’m not super comfortable with some of the pro-gun stuff I’ve seen on RMR, and am considering pulling my Patreon, but I’m still not sure how I feel about that one. I really hate guns.
But, “No ethical consumption under capitalism” isn’t an excuse to that says we can all safely give up trying to act ethically.
It means we can’t hold ourselves responsible for the way those far more powerful act, while doing the best we can according to our own ethics.
I mentioned this in my Decksaver thread comment—I like Decksavers, but I didn’t feel good about causing more plastic in the world, so I found another option. But I don’t judge other people for using Decksavers.
I do sort of judge my family for still eating Wendy’s, after I told them about the labor exploitation thing. And I judge the shit out of my brother for eating at Chick-Fil-A.
Edit: Responded to the wrong comment. Sorry, @Fin25
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I hope nobody construes my comment above as such - I was merely highlighting my own stance, but I don’t assume it’s the best or that others should follow it. It’s a really interesting topic, and one I love discussing, but yeah. Judging by some of the discussion had above and when it has come up previously here and on other forums, I do agree that it’s a difficult one to have in a context which is mostly devoid of true relationship and lends itself to kneejerk reactions and demonizing others over personal choice, ability, etc.
I don’t think all of the responses saying this isn’t the best place are sticking their heads in the sand. It’s obvious a lot of us have thought deeply about this topic, including those who think this isn’t the right place. But almost every time it comes up (not just here but on other forums as well), it ends in enmity and hostility and little, if any, real change. This is something we should all think about from time to time, and it is a luxury to be able to detach from the direct consequences of our actions, which can itself be problematic. But we also can’t presume to know others’ mental state, life circumstances, etc. Some people may already be inundated by this stuff and just need a mental break.
Most people here seem to like this place precisely because it’s fairly detached from “real life” problems - climate, politics, religion, wars, whatever - to some extent, it’s all left at the door. Should it be? I’m not the arbiter of that decision and I won’t pretend to know enough about anything to make that call. Can it be entirely? No, of course not - everything is at least a little political or affected by politics. But Elektronauts is the only space on the internet I’ve found where I can at least kind of shut out the problems in the world. I value that, and I’ve seen others express a similar sentiment. I don’t mind the discussion occasionally, obviously, as I’m participating in it. But I get why people wouldn’t want to see it here.
also:
YES!
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The Planet is going to be blown to dust in the future anyway. The less chance we have of finding another planet to populate the better for the Universe? This is just fast tracking the process a little bit.
Lets buy the stuff and make a house out of it when it stops working
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Of course there can be and there is “ethical” manufacturing. Gotta say it wasn’t so big of a problem before we offshored a lot of our production overseas (to Asia), just for the sake of economics and because our leaders liberalised trading (process of globalisation). There are good places in Asia too, but it is easier to know the labour conditions when production happens within your own country (or a country of similar standard). I think that is why it is good that Elektron does their stuff in Sweden and Poland and TE has opened a factory in Spain. We need to have manufacturing in Europe.
Well said.
On the other hand…
