Do neighbor machines increase latency?

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#15

I don’t think @tnussb has an OT he’s just been studying the manual…
The manual never explicitly states that you can only use up to 3 neighbors, but it’s implied in secret corners. :smile:

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#16

I would buy an OT in a second, but I’m not allowed to do so (by myself) until I utilize my almost brandnew A4MKII much more.

Yes, I was just absolutely baffled by that fact that neighbours on the OT are restricted this way. Well, kind of make sense: how should a sound jump across the display? :wink:

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#17

I don’t know where I read it or if it’s true but there’s a theory that tracks 1-4 and 5-8 each use one of the two dsp’s…

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#18

Make sense …

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#19

Correct, Elektron said this.

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#20

I’m currently doing some testing that suggests that Neighbor Machines increase latency… by approx 1.45ms per instance.

So if you use three Neighbour machines on Trk 1 then your latency increases by approx 4.35ms

Turning on Trk 8 as a “Master” track also appear increases latency by about 0.75ms.

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Does Ableton do the Octatrack thing?
#21

Nice investigating…
I don’t want you to go out of your way but if you have any other stats like inputs->mixer dir or inputs-thru machine would love to know… :slight_smile:

Stereo delay
#22

My testing showed using the “Dir” option in the mixer does not add any latency, but does cause about +30º phase shift at 12kHz… Which is odd because if it’s not adding latency it must be before the converter… possibly some sort of aliasing filter on the input?
Also even going via “Direct”, if you turn on Trk 8 as “Master” latency increases by about 0.75ms.

EDIT: Sorry, I just went back and checked my measurements. My mistake. latency on the “DIR” mixer was +1.29ms compared to the cable loop, so yes DIR must be on the other side of the converter. (Phase shift and additional latency from Trk 8 Master still appears to be correct though)
Thanks Avantronica for making me second guess that.

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#23

Interesting… :thinking: Thanks…

#24

Certainly something to keep in mind if you’re using the OT for parallel processing and the like. :+1:

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#25

It has been officially confirmed however that even DIR is post ADC, everything happening is post conversion afaicr

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#27

Interesting… I wonder why there isn’t a change in latency then? Maybe I need to remeasure that part…
Can you link me to where it was “officially confirmed” so I can get some more context?

EDIT: I just went back and checked my measurements. My mistake. latency on the “DIR” mixer was +1.29ms compared to the cable loop, so yes DIR must be on the other side of the converter.

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#28

Nice work! thanks for keeping up with it.

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#29

I made my tests with OT internal recording and there were no added latency. That would mean the latency is added globally?

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#30

Something also to consider while making these tests is the latency compensation. Did you both have it off? …On?

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#31

I might need you to clarify what you mean there.
I did no internal recording when I made these tests, it’s just using smaart to measure round trip latency.

I guess I can think of one way I could check if the delay increase was “global” I could measure an input on tracks 1 thru 4 with neighbours and another input on say track 5 going straight to the master out and see if there is a difference in the time it takes to make the trip.

Is that what you’re getting at?

#32

Isn’t delay compensation on the OT just a switchable delay of a fixed value on the input?
If I understand correctly (and I may not, I’m certainly not an OT power user) that wouldn’t make any difference to the latency increase from adding a neighbour machine if that’s the case…

#33

Thread is about neighbor latency but since tests were done I was curious about mixer dir, and thru latencies which I inquired about earlier in the thread and you were helpful with the dir stat. The delay comp only affects mixer direct, which a stat was posted, seems you probably had it off though as it’s quite low. Still curious about thru if anyone tested.

#34

I’m gonna say I probably had it off at the time.
I can probably set up the test rig again sometime this week though…
Or maybe Elektron will chime in and just tell us lol. :joy:

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#35

That’s quite a lot. (For comparison, my Soundcraft digital mixer has > 0.8ms from mic in to line out, all processing egaged (and that’s a lot of processing)). I’ll fire up Smaart to double check if I have a break from work