DJ mixer vs Octatrack (fx and looper)

The Lounge Other Gear
#12

Thanks for the suggestions @Riuozami and @bwo - there’s clearly a lot of amazing gear out there and the option paralysis can start to creep in quickly! @Riuozami those Xone mixers are amazing but what I was thinking of here was more about time-based performance FX like loopers, synced delays etc rather than traditional DJ mixing duties like EQing and mixing two tracks. I know it all sounds a bit vague and that’s because it is, but all the discussions and looking at different paths is helpful so thanks.

@bwo I’ll confess that I’m aware of rotary mixers but I never understand if they had a different purpose to traditional DJ mixers or if it was just a stylistic choice. The mixer in the video certainly look very well-made and sounds lovely but perhaps not exactly what I’m looking for. Always good to know what’s out there though, I had no idea this stuff even existed.

It’s worth mentioning that I used to DJ a bit (only in my bedroom) and although I enjoyed the performance part of it I didn’t much enjoy the “curating hundreds of tracks” part of it. The modern digital DJ tools like Traktor etc are very performance-friendly (especially with dedicated controllers) and have amazing looping tools, FX etc that lend themselves well to beat-oriented electronic music. I can’t help but wonder about looking down that road but just using my own material. It’s not like the old days - I don’t need to press vinyl or burn CDs, I can literally just bounce down loops and other “raw material” in a DAW using my Digitone or whatever other tools I fancy and then immediately “perform” with it using DJ software.

I don’t want to be dogmatic and I’m not trying to prove anything in terms of being “DAW-less” or whatever, I just want to enjoy myself and make some music at home BUT without staring at the screen the whole time. A little bit of the time is OK as long as long as I can then switch off the monitor and make some music with my hands! I think I said in another thread here - no harm in using different bits of technology for what they’re good at.

#13

I started out using OT as a mixer for my other boxes, but I think things really opened up for me when I connected my synths to a mixer (6 track stereo DJ mixer in my case). Just having the kick on a separate channel makes a big difference for me. In addition, this setup allows me to keep to OT switched off and to focus more on the other boxes.

#14

Xone DB4 is actually pretty good for that matter.
You get 4 FX (quality ones, nothing to do with Pioneer imho).
You also get 1 looper per track and the looper is pretty spot on.

Edit: had one that I started DJing with that soon became a hub for a couple of synths.

#15

Yep :slight_smile:
Have actually not turned my MBP in a while :slight_smile:
Although I use Reaper as my main DAW, I recently have been starting every session with the laptop turned off.
It has proven very productive.

#16

Well my work MBP is on for 8 hours a day and then I end up using my personal one as well (much of which is spent here chatting about music gear) so some hardware is a good remedy to get away from the computer.

Thanks for the opinions on the DB4, it’s clearly a leader in the field for a reason. I’m a bit hesitant to spend that sort of money which is why I was considering the pioneer or something else a bit cheaper. Are the Pioneer FX really that bad? I watched a bunch of YT videos and I thought they seemed pretty decent as performance FX. You probably wouldn’t use them for “serious” production work but that’s kind of the thing - I’ve grown extremely bored with the whole idea of surgical music production, spending hours fiddling with one sound, messing with arrangement or EQing a perfect drum and bass snare etc. I respect these professional producers and their dedication but to me it just kills the enjoyment stone dead. Probably a conversation for another day though!

#17

I see your point- a Xone 96 will allow you to add up to 2 fx on each channel, in stereo.

The mixer has its own channel dedicate to effects which can be also equalised.

It is real fun- you can add a couple of eventide pedal or OTO BIM and BOUM and or any pedal you might already have.
It is very fun cause not only you can jam with your machines, but you can also create tracks, do a lot of improvisation.

You can use the mixer also as an analog preamp and go ITB with real analog quality.

I would not compare and confuse this with an Octatrack or Machine +

Have a look at the rear of the mixer to understand the potential of this instrument.

If your main interest is effects you can choose the Xone DB4 which has a real digital multi effects built in and can be used as sound card and or controller for Ableton- possibilities are endless.

#18

I just want to add that going from a computer based setup to a hardware one is really tossing a coin.

Getting out of your comfort zone can be interesting when you want to experiment, but I try regularly to go the “Dawless” route because I am also in front of the computer all day and want to look at something other than a screen for a while, but it’s really never satisfying in terms of sound and control and I realise that I’m just having more fun with the help of my computer.

I really want to insist that if it is just a hobby, it may be a bad idea to get too much out of your comfort zone like that because it can really crushing to become a beginner again when you’re not prepared to grind again. Making things sound good as an ITB setup (especially when you have your routines and are fast) with only machines is really difficult, and having to relearn to do basic stuff when you just want to have fun is really difficult and unwelcome.

2 Likes
#19

Pioneer FX are not “bad” but… They just plainly do not sound good to MY ears :slight_smile:
DB4 line of FX is coming straight from iLive (or DLive, not sure) line of mixers. They are not just DJ FX.
Using a DB4 as a soundcard is not a good idea as the drivers were very badly written. And furthermore not supported. I had to rewrite portion of the hexadecimal code.
Apart from that, you get a routing matrix out of this world for a DJ mixer as well as 3 types of EQ per channel.
If it was not for the soundcard drivers, I would buy it again. Had a MODEL1 after it and would gladly return to the DB4 :slight_smile:

#20

What went wrong with the Model 1? I was just going to suggest it after the Xone 96…

#21

@Riuozami
This: PlayDifferently MODEL1 or NOT?
I believe the QC is not what would be expected from a 3’300€ mixer…
Not judging the brand but it surely keeps me away from it now…

#22

Yes this is what I meant…

Wow I am surprised by the QC issues, in the end this is manufactured at Allen Heath like all the Xones

#23

Thanks for the advice. I understand where you’re coming from but I have sometimes had the opposite feeling where I can spend all day with microscopic control over sound design etc but not really get anywhere and often not have much fun. I think if you set realistic expectations (a small hardware setup isn’t going to be like a DAW) then hopefully we can still get a lot of enjoyment and minimal frustration!

Ultimately, you don’t have to have one or the other. I can hang onto my software if I want to use that but I can also get some hardware so I can go screen-free when I want to do that. Nobody is forcing me to choose!

1 Like
#24

I am not sure about that.
I think they are manufactured in Wales by a small crew.
I was unlucky :slight_smile:

#25

Hey, according to a 2018 video on the Model 1 website, it is built in an Audiotonix factory in Scotland. Afaik, Audiotonix is the mother company of A&H, SSL, etc, and this is the factory where they assemble their flagship consoles.

#26

Well, it completely depends what you expect from a looper. For me the missing MIDI sync control is a no go (as well as no standard send/returns as basic mixer functionality).

But, of course, as a complete package for performing with FX on the fly and some looping it’s great.

For everyone not having seen DaveMech’s introduction video yet (+ follow ups):

2 Likes
#27

Late to the party, thank you all for sharing your experience here! I’m in a similar debate myself, as I started my build with a DB4, but have since added many more voices. I think I have a good routing solution (described below), but I’m still looking for that final mix interface.

First, I want to say the DB4 is an awesome mixer! about the most fun I’ve ever had on hardware. You just can’t underestimate the power of 4 independent fx engines, filters/eq on every channel, and being able to mirror inputs to any/all four channels. Combined with the dj-speed of the interface…all you need is Bluetooth and SoundCloud and you’ve got a banging set. It’s sooo much fun!

However, that said — I hit the glass ceiling on the DB4 as soon as I wanted to build on top of it. As mentioned above, no sync, so resampling has to happen upstream. But even more of a killer: It has no sends! Whatever happens in that box comes out mixed down. Period. The audio interface doesn’t fix this, either. What was said above about the USB interface is true: Finicky, terrible latency, and big-time tendency to ground loop. It’s a mixer with great onboard fx, so I can’t fault AH for the lack of expandability…it’s just a repeatedly sad feeling that what’s created there can’t go further.

As an alternative, I’m using a MOTU 16a + Faderfox control surfaces to route audio everywhere in my system. The advantage of this is 1, It’s a hardware setup with 7 stereo aux buses and 6 stereo group busses — I’m layering and sending audio anywhere and everywhere; 2, The creative work can happen elsewhere on gear dedicated to its particular purpose; and 3, The results can also be multitrack recorded into the MBP for further development. I won’t get into the resultant tug-of-war caused by the gravity of the DAW…but, I feel if I’m going to record, I have to accept this.

The problem though is that OSC-to-Motu is not performance speed (hoping I can resolve this, but as of now, adjustments are very “ease-in” and “ease-out”— adequate for routing a system patch, but not jammable.)

So what is that final mix-down interface?? All signs point towards an Octatrack. I see myself using the motu group busses to layer up A and B channels, adding whatever OT fx I can, resampling, looping, and cuing up my next bit. Elektronauts, am I headed in the right direction?? :laughing:

1 Like
#28

Unfortunately Octatrack sounds like shit, tho, or so I hear.

Welcome to the forum BTW. Soon you will understand the nuances of the above :slight_smile:

#29

hey what did you ever decide on?

#30

Just as a tip for db4, you can use record out set to ‘phones’(in settings) and then use the cue buttons to send channels out the micxer. Use mic/line channel for the return and voila, a send return :slight_smile:

I’ve considered octatrack as mixer a few times, but it just doesn’t have enough inputs which makes you go into workaround modus from the get go and it limits things a lot for the way I work live. Also eying the bluebox . Which might be a great solution together iwth one of the faderfox midi controllers.

1 Like
#31

@DaveMech that’s clever! Thank you for that tip :star_struck: