Digital Multitracker with Aux send/returns?

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

I bought a zoomr16,which I love as it means I can record hardware jams without the computer on. Neat thing about it too, is that I can then drop the separate tracks into a DAW afterwards, if I want to edit my recording or play around with it afterwards… and it’s tiny for an 8 input mixer which can act as a sound card.

However, I also own an eventide H9, and really want to use it as an aux effect. I’ve seen little mixers like the the Zedi10 that have a send/return for effect units, but wondering if anyone has come across something like the zoom r16 with send/returns?

The only thing I’ve come across is the Tascam DP3Dsd, which is kind of overkill for what I want, not to mention pretty huge. Anyone know of something more comparable to the R16?

http://tascam.com/product/dp-32sd/

#2

Zoom R16 user here, too. I’ve explored this area a fair bit, and there are two things I think might work for you:

The R16’s younger, bigger sibling will multitrack record, and has five independent sub mixes. These are intended for headphone monitoring, but one of them has line outs as well. You could run that one out to your effect, the return back through one of the stereo in channels.

The QSC TouchMix series, either the -8 or -16, mixer will do what you want, and has plenty of sub-mix out capability.
https://www.qsc.com/live-sound/products/touchmix-mixers/

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#3

Thanks for the info! The QSC looks awesome, but outside my price range for the time being.

I did brifely look at the L-12, and was wondering if I could do that with the extra outputs, I don’t have much experience with mixing desks. If you do that method, how would you control the FX level on different tracks? Or can you not; would it just have the FX on all the channels?

#4

Have you gone for either of these yourself?

#5

This guy has effect send output.

1 Like
#6

Some folks thought that you could use the headphone mix outputs as aux sends. You’d probably have to use up inputs as “aux returns”.

#7

[delete, double post]

#8

If you did that though, would the FX mix just be applied to every channel? As there’s no individual return for each channel.

#9

Thanks, I have seen this @jefones. It’s quite a beast! I’ve read mixed reviews about usability, but it seems like it’s one of the only options out there for what I want.

#10

Not quite what you are looking for but to run an isolated track through an external effects processor on the dinky Zoom R8

http://www.henkybacker.com/2011/10/the-hidden-output-of-the-zoom-r8-and-r24/

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#11

On my Mackie mixer, each channel has its own Aux Send level knob. When I plug a delay pedal into my Aux Send, only the channels that have their Aux Send knobs set above zero will send signal to the delay pedal. So if I have a Volca FM plugged into Channel 1 with aux send set half way, and Volca Keys going into Channel 2, but the Keys has its aux knob all the way down, only the Volca FM signal will go to the delay pedal.

I’m guessing the L-12 works similarly, since each headphone output can have its own mix.

#12

There are two kinds of FX chains on mixers: Inserts & Aux.
[Appologies if you know all this already…]

Inserts are post the preamp stage (so after mic or inst. presamp), but before the fader. They allow you to “insert” an effect on the instrument before you mix it. On a mixer with inserts, the insert is usually TRS 1/4" jack near the input. You use a Y cable, and wire it to the in & out of your effect box. Obviously, you use one effect box for each channel you want an insert on! If the mixer has digital effects, it may support one or more insert effects per channel - though often the total number effects assigned is limited.

Aux busses are essentially a separate (usually mono) mix of the channels that is then wired to your outboard effect box. The return the box may then be connected to the Aux return (if the mixer has them), or a spare channel strip. The send level on each channel strip controls the amount of that instrument that is mixed in the send to the effect, and the return is a single signal (sometimes a stereo pair) - which as you observe, doesn’t return to each channel individually. Many mixers with onboard effects have only this kind of effect system, and so the effect is applied to a “submix” of the channels.

A few digital mixers have the ability to put the effect “on the master bus”, usually, what this means is that the send to the effect is the same mix you are sending to the master mix, and then there is some control for how much of the effect your want mixed in on the way to the master outs.

You have to read the specs of mixers carefully to find out what selection of hardware insert and aux sends it has, and if it has digital effects are they insert effects or aux bus effects.

The Zoome R-16 has both insert and master effects on board - but no jacks for using outboard effects. In general, I find the R-16 effects both very hard to use, and lack luster in sound… so I never use them.

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#13

For a short period my R-16 was dying and we were really looking for a stage monitoring solution. This was before the L-12 was out, and the QSC TouchMix-8, while pricey, looked like the quality ticket.

I came very close to getting one, but then a) our need for monitoring relaxed, and b) a friend helped me open up the Zoom and we re-soldered the flaky jacks.

The L-12 is nicer than the R-16, and were I starting from nothing, I’d probably get it. But if I’m going to trade up from the R-16, I’d probably go right to the QSC.

#14

Cheers @mokomo, that is a neat trick. Shame I have the only zoom it wont; work on! :frowning: Still good to know though.
Thanks @mzero for the info. I was a bit confused about how send/return worked on mixers, and forgot that you use the aux amount per channel to mix in the FX amount. So in the instance of the L12, it would be the headphone level, which can be routed internally to a channel. Just had a look at the manual, think I get it now! Looks like that would work then, at a sacrifice of one channel… not the end of the world, and half the price (in the UK anyway) of the QSC. Thanks @GovernorSilver, that info helped clarify!

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#15

Another option would be to use a sophisticated audio interface card like the RME UFX Series which now comes with 2nd gen USB multi-track recording features and has super stable drivers.

All modern professional grade audio cards come with flexible routing options too…

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#16

The L-12 is one of my candidates, as I also have an iPad, and being able to send more than 2 channels into the iPad for processing and stuff is a nice advantage.

Then of course, there’s the advantage of being able to route one headphone mix out to the Octatrack, another to my own H9, and a third to my Ciat Lonbarde Cocolase (if I ever got crazy enough to use both Octatrack and Cocolase at the same time).

I’m also considering other mixers, but those don’t have standalone recording capability like the L-12, so a bit off topic for this thread ;).

#17

I have a much smaller Tascam I enjoy. It’s easy enough to use so for a bigger rig I’m leaning more towards Tascam than the multi track zooms. The zoom r16/r24 were definitely canidates for me but the main feed back I kept hearing was the zoom build quality isn’t all that great.

#18

I have a Tascam DP24 and I quite enjoy its workflow. It’s definitely not without its quirks but for someone who does not want to learn a daw this is definitely a great option.

One of the main quirks pertains to the effect sends. It has two sends but if you choose to use the onboard effects you can only use one at a time. You can use a second external effect but it can only be on the second send and the onboard FX is assigned to send one and that is not assignable. Alternatively if you bypass the internal FX you can use both sends on external options. The main quirk is that you have to use the inputs that are otherwise used for recording as the return for the sends. I usually do my tracking first and then add external FX during the mix down stage so I can use all 8 inputs for live tracking.

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#19

The thing is that you have to sacrifice 2 inputs to actually record the effects applied to audio :confused: unless someone has figured out an alternative.

#20

Didn’t see this :confused: sorry