I think it’s pretty funny to have such a strong opinion about this, but you’re absolutely entitled to your opinion. I wish you good luck on your crusade against whatever it is that’s bothering you about people who create music while digging through menus :))
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I don’t know a lot of workflows, everything I’ve tried seemed to me less fluid than Elektron’s one, except full hand panel such as the pricy DSI or very delimited Make Noise semi-modulars…
I understand that a certain amount of menu diving may be necessary to offer some depth, and I found Elektron to look for the right balance between options and playability.
I wouldn’t sacrifice every A4 secondary menu for the sake of having the knobs on a panel.
I need a small enough format to play somewhere else than in my studio, I need affordability and in the other hand I hate too much menu diving à la Roland or even Push 3.
I feel like I can go from an idea to it’s realization very quickly with the Elektron boxes, I have enough and fast control, which is why I have so much trouble with many other workflows.
Pretty much every piece of music equipment is a computer. Even my “analog” Drumbrute Impact has a USB socket.
The only difference is:
- The control surface
- If it also does your emails
I personally find the teeny LCD menu the worst of all paradigms.
I’m increasingly enjoying the iPad especially with a launchpad.
It’s not about screens so much. The Polyend Tracker has a big screen but is super fast, tactile with very little menu diving.
Love your first principle approach. iPad can do email but that’s optional. we are the boss when we have the choices.
Same here I use Launchpad X and Midimix with iPad at home.
The below video showed how we can use an iPad without touching the iPad 
I’m not quite sure if that counted as playing the iPad or Launchpad, using computer or hardware.
That youtuber don’t even have to look at the iPad during the performance and he can play the same performance on his iPad. The Launchpad and iPad is interchangeable as an interface in this example.
It’s the beauty of going modular. iPad x a hardware controller seems the most flexible combo to get the best of the both world.
I also highly recommended the app Velocity Keyboard($9.99) for iPad. It’s not perfect but good enough to be a virtual midi controller for instrumental performance.
After all, I’m discussing what actually digging menu on a small screen as an interface during a performance is. To me it is one of the worst choice. There are many well designed software/hardware controllers that can do way better jobs.
Agree with you, menu diving is always there. Especially for setup/sound design before the jam/performance.
But being forced to do menu diving during a jam/performance is another issue. It could be avoided/reduced with a better interface/controller.
I never had a hardware instrument insist I do an update before I could use it, or need to have to have anti malware installed, or suddenly for no good reason a component stops working because of a software driver issue, etc.
Yes, some modern instruments are just a SBC running a linux core and have custom hardware, I personally don’t think they have as many issues as a computer primarily designed for office/computer tasks.
But use whatever works best for you.
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I sold my MPC because Quickbooks wouldn’t run on it!
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I sold my Syntakt because no Reason.
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That’s why you buy a deluge… now someone just needs to port lotus 123 into it and we’re set!
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i use my phone all the time every day and i still dont have any useful muscle memory built up. maybe while typing but still ive made multiple typos ive had to fix while half paying attention while typing this. i would imagine its even harder to develop muscle memory on an even larger iDevice
You are not alone, I guess not just musicians, all creators are ditching wahtever computers and switch to “hardwares” I believe tu believe that is the trend. Or its not?
I don’t use office PC or SBC for music. Only iPad Pro. Apps updates are great which mean more feature and improvements. Just like a Tesla doing OTA update gets better performance and features while the rest of the industry has to visit a dealer just to do a minor fix. I know you also get firmware upgrade like once or twice a year? That’s not bad for hardwares.
We don’t build whatever memory for other people’s layout/design. We design our own interface on well designed music making apps that allow us to do so.
My own interface is native to me. Try it for yourself.
Delgue is a very good hardware groovebox without menu digging!
You should share more great hardwares that don’t force users to do menu diving while the music/mood is flowing. I opened a thread for that
Swimming against the tide of the OP’s thoughts but for me the definition of cryptic is a device full of buttons (usually in a grid format) with multiple functions. I get that with perseverance you build up a muscle memory but I use lots of gear, some of it irregularly. There’s nothing worse than having to ‘re learn’ something when all I want it’s have an outcome. I bought a mono circuit but ultimately found it confusing and frustrating and just put it to one side in favour of the more capable and immediate BS2. Give me a screen or knob/button per function, or at least proper legends any day of the week and twice on Sundays. So much more immediate for me when I know what I want to adjust or set.
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You might want to invest in a decent software/virtual or hardware controller that can be mapped to most of your hardware/software. I do that with my launchpad X and Midimix
I’ve been struggling to work out how I feel about this topic. On the one hand menus can be cumbersome to navigate compared with an interface based around dedicated controls / button combinations.
But then both paradigms have there issues
For more information about the issues I have with both paradigms please select an option.
Issues with menus
Menus take time to navigate.
Menus need you to remember where options are located.
Menus are inevitably in horizontal or vertical layers
A good example of menus is where you might have a dedicated button to open each type of menu.
For example the QY700
Which is undoubtedly a computer, you push one button to open a menu, then a numpad to make selections.
Menus that both are self-explanatory in their navigation AND allow for developing muscle memory by using enough buttons for quickly selecting options are the best kind.
Menus that require repeated presses of arrow type selection keys or similar to get to where you need to go are the worst. Having a shortcut option to get straight to the need page wins IMHO.
Issues with front panel shift style button combinations
These do seem like a better option on the surface.
I particularly liked how the Circuit implemented this
But the issue is, after time away you forget the combinations and this requires you to look up documentation.
Argument: looking up the manual for basic operations is a PITA
Don’t get me wrong, I’m an advocate of reading the manual first for most things. But it really bugs me when there’s necessary functionality like setting midi channels, clock settings etc that are hidden behind unlabelled button combinations.
This gets worse with firmware updates
Because new features and capabilities have to be mapped to existing controls so by default they can’t be labelled on the front panel. Even as a very short term Digitone use before the songmode update, I still haven’t got my head around the small variations to the button shortcuts. It’s disorienting.
A note on this post
Yes I’m a twat.
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On a more serious note I have been tempted by the Electra One as a one size fits all controller that I can map a standard layout across multiple synths and VSTs.
From things like the slightly cumbersome Toraiz AS-1 to some of the iPad synths which I love using as preset machines but find using the touch screen a bit fatiguing, to the Blackbox, and beyond.
the Access Virus TI2 screen and menu comes to mind. Fortunately most buttons and knobs map easily once you learn the combos and I can use mine to create a tune quickly.
This.
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That’s why going sotware that allow custom layout is so valuable. My own deisgned layout/interface is native to me I don’t have to “remember” what to do.
Edit: change wording