Destructive looping with Octatrack

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#1

I recently saw a video of Toyota Vangelis using Bastl Thyme for destructive looping and I found the workflow really inspiring. Chase Bliss Blooper also seems to encourage this type of workflow and I’ve seen people do some really creative stuff with it. I was wondering if I could already do what they are doing with Octatrack, but couldn’t get it to work even with a lot of effort spent last night.

So what I mean is:

  1. Record a loop
  2. Overdub new stuff on top of the loop
  3. Use effects to mangle the loop, permanently recording the effects as part of the loop
  4. Repeat 2 and 3 ad infinitum

I tried to do this with a Pickup machine and various combinations of recording settings, recording both external inputs and the same track again (for imprinting the effects) but nothing seemed to give the result I was after even though on paper I think it should have. Often I would just end up with an empty loop with no idea how it happened. A big problem I had for instance is that there’s no way to move straight from playing to replacing without first going through overdubbing.

Anyone tried anything similar? Did you get it to work?

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#2

Never tried it myself, but if using the pickup machine, then maybe have that listening to main output.
Then thru machine or what ever as your source with a bunch of neighbour machines, fx and so on. Set up some scenes to mess up the source material, pick up machine does its job and captures loops of the result. Which gradually degrade as the scenes progress.

Does that sound right? I dunno, Ive never had any joy using OT as a looper.

#3

Yeah I can get the pickup machine to record incoming audio just fine. The problem is mangling the recorded loop and recording the results of that again, in the same loop. I can’t seem to get that part to work.

#4

For reference, here’s the video in question https://youtu.be/ZEL0u2dTAt0

#5

You can feedback a recording onto itself, that’s what you’re after?

#6

Yeah I think I didnt make myself clear. Seperate the signal paths.
One path is the incoming audio, routed through fx and mangled.
The other path is the looper path. The one that grabs the results.
Then I guess you could send that back to the incoming path?

#7

I don’t think splitting the signal path or not will affect the actual recording setup, just what’s possible to do with mangling. I can record the two FX slots of the pickup track just fine. It’s just that if I switch between play/overdub/replace modes, I get very weird, unexpected results including ending up with an empty loop, and I’m not entirely sure how that happens.

Actually one alternative I have yet to try is permanently staying in replace mode, I just lose the ability to play on top of the loop withou recording the result.

The more I think about it, the less sure I am though that this even is a good workflow for me, as using pickup machines always sets the tempo which usually isn’t what I want. The next thing I’m wondering is, can I do this with flex machines?

#8

Yes. Flex machines are much easier to manage. I believe @sezare56 works in this fashion.

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#9

Ah, actually tried with flex machines and it works almost perfectly. Should have just forgotten about pickup machines though they seem designed for this type of workflow on surface.

So I have flex track 1 playing back recording buffer 1, and I have both sample and recording triggers on trig 1. It’s now capturing anything from the inputs and also the track output itself, so any effects I do are also recorded.

Now, there are a couple of downsides. First of all, since flex machines aren’t made for looping, I have to basically do it this way, retriggering recording constantly, or recordings that cross from the end of the buffer to the beginning won’t work. A far worse problem though is that if I keep the loop running, it will progressively get destroyed even if there are no effects applied. I’m not actually sure what the problem is. Is it some kind of phasing issue from resampling latency? Does the track clip, though it doesn’t seem to get louder over time? Not sure what’s going on, need more testing.

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#10

Ah yes interesting challenge!

As Pickups abort overdub changing, I don’t think they are appropriate for that.

So yes FLEX, Recorder recording itself or CUE.
CUE can set the feedback about.
You can use several recorders / recordings.
Can’t try now.

#11

FLEX are OT essence, Pickups is an add-on came with an update.

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#12

Ok, with some further testing, the flex machine setup I described above will indeed cause the loop to progressively become louder and self destruct, and track level doesn’t seem to affect this. Still not sure what’s causing it.

#13

With still more testing, looks like it’s the infamous OT filter that’s causing the destruction. Removing the filter from the track causes the loop to be stable, at least for several minutes now.

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#14

Yes, filter destroys the loop progressively.
VOL has to be at 0 to avoid volume increase.
Level changes only playback volume, but doesn’t influence recording level.

5 Likes
#15

In the end, this actually works better than I expected, but I feel like I would be better off using OT for stuff it’s better at, and get a Blooper (and/or Thyme) for looper duties as they seem to have a better workflow for this kind of stuff. It was an interesting experiment nonetheless, and I might use this in the meanwhile! …or in addition to those.

#16

Actually just as I was typing that, I glanced at the OT and noticed the loop is still getting progressively louder! (I have the audio editor open with the waveform zoomed) It’s stable for much longer without the filter now, but this is definitely not optimal.

#17

Interesting thing to do is to pre slice, keeping the same tempo.

You can also make a start trigs grid, I usually place them each 2 steps.
Start values or one bar :
0 16 32 48 64 80 96 112
That way you can modify only portion and continue to play the rest normally.

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#18

I found that if i wanted a bit more flexibility when overdubbing using flex tracks, it was useful to use 2 tracks… this allows you to alter what is being recorded during overdub . I show this on my last video.

I think this is true… whilst the OT can, with creativity, do many things sometimes the workflow becomes a little convoluted compared to a dedicated device… so if its a ‘key’ part of your setup, perhaps something else is warranted.

(in fairness, I found the same with Ableton Live… whilst it can do looping, and you can control with a pedal… I think a dedicated looper pedal is always going to be easier)

of course the flip side is… once you get the audio into a recorder/flex, the OT can take you so many places :slight_smile:

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#19

Yes, definitely! For this, and as a sequencer it’s going to have a long live in my setup! Maybe until it dies :grin: But probably not for live looping.

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#20

@ilmai I had satisfying results using Pickup recording itself (SRC3=T1) for fx tweaking.
For pitch I used delay, its DIR=0, hence fully wet, and time=1. Change time / feedback / with crossfader.

Possible to record a Neighbour track instead, to add fx.

You can use use overdub and replace mode.

Minimum fade in / out.

You can load a sample in the rec buffer, add 12db other you’re loosing volume recording fx.