Instead of a 500 euro sync box you could pick up a cheap RM1x and use that as master clock and maybe even sequencer. It’s a highly underrated box with a rock solid clock and has a very capable sequencer (480 ppq). It also has a lot of nice midi tricks up its sleeve.
There was never any talk of me having any problems. Might want to read the posts before you jump the gun. We were just discussing the problems DAWs have with jitter and midi clock when syncing to external hardware. I’m not buying anything, I work mostly ITB.
That’s exactly my point. There’s no generalized “problem with DAWs” that a €500 sync box can fix.
There are only specific problems, pretty much all of which are either straightforward to resolve, or are the result of people having trouble understanding or refusing to acknowledge that latency is inherent in a digital audio system.
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That box looks good! Thanks for pointing it out.
That said there’s loads of ways to achieve decent sync of external gear with a DAW and even using USB midi clock to sync an external sequencer usually isn’t too bad for most purposes. I’ve done this with digitakt from Mac, both via digitakt USB and other quality midi interfaces and it’s been ok…and I’m usually quite fussy on this point. Modern PCs usually are fine too (especially if set up with DAWs in mind).
At the moment I midi clock to DT, then I have its Din Sync out controlling a Eurorack system. This has been stable and solid… for my purposes anyway!
One thing I would like DT to have is DIN SYNC in. If OB doesnt deliver promises on DAW sync, another option is to sync using a midi clock generated via an audio channel on your audio interface (expert sleepers ES-3 or similar can achieve this with sample accuracy). Yeah all this needs some setting up … and some cash!
In my experience it’s good to use DAW as master clock and achieve reliable sync with one external device with good connectivity (drum machine is a good choice usually because they tend to have decent clocking). From here, sync other devices from the drum machine. That usually (though not always) works better than loads of clocks over USB from the computer in my experience.
But I do agree, there’s no inherent problem with the vast majority of modern computers that prevents reliable and accurate sync. Latency and especially jitter can be minimised (and their effects conpensated for!) if you know what you’re doing.
John
I’m of two minds on this topic. I owned a digitakt twice and sold it twice because the random crashes were unacceptable to me (even when used alone). I don’t think the development of the digitone is related to the delays in the software, but rather that they are having a hard time ironing out all the bugs without creating new ones. @LyingDalai i don’t think the number of updates is relevant if the product still doesn’t work at a base level. The thing that is really hurting me right now is the Overbridge delays as it would really streamline my workflow. I think there was a missed opportunity by Elektron to showcase what is coming in the new overbridge to get people pumped for it to distract from the fact they’ve been waiting a long time for it. In the case of Digitakt owners, 9 months. 9 months with promised features that have been unavailable. I’m rocking an a4 and the direct outs aren’t working out for me so Overbridge is the only other solution for me.
The other side of my brain says that I was a Virus TI 1 owner and it had bugs that would cause it to output a high frequency full volume noise when it crashed and it took 9 months to fix. Even now I think the TI software is 2 years old and still in “beta”. There is a reason all the virus’ are collecting dust in the stores here.
Regarding MIDI clock quality, I used to believe that DAWs were bad at generating a stable MIDI clock signal (because everyone said so) until I built a MidiGAL and used its MidiClk firmware to do some testing back in 2016.
As it turned out, with Ableton Live running on OS X using a cheap ESI MIDIMATE II “cable style” USB-to-DIN MIDI interface, I was able to generate a clock signal with more than 3 times less jitter than the clock signal from an Elektron RYTM or Analog Four.
As an aside, it should be noted that MIDI clock jitter is not very relevant for keeping most modern hardware boxes in sync. The reason for this is that pretty much all non-trivial hardware as well as all DAWs don’t use the MIDI Clock Messages directly to advance their internal sequencer, but instead average the timing of the incoming clock messages to derive a BPM value which they then use to set or update their internal clock, which is what drives their sequencer.
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Just quick- You were using this as an example that it can be done with a cheap random cable right? Not that you found this one runs the best?
Anyways, ok, if your experiance with using a computer DAW to sync with hardware has been positive, then that is great, but that doesn’t negate my bad experiences with it. I have tried multiple times over the years… But, I will be honest, that after years of failure, I just don’t spend the time trying to to troubleshoot. I try it once and fuck it. If the clock is all over the place (last time I tried to sync the DT with Live, the clock lagged back and forth sooo bad) I move on to find a way to make music. I don’t want to build a MidiGal and do testing. I just find ways around obstacles, so that I can get things done.
Also missed opportunity…Analog Keys MKII
Did you try a few different interfaces?
Some actually don’t work well for this purpose.
My Saffire 40’s midi out clock was all over the place whenever note out information was being sent. As in actually making other devices stutter.
In the end, I was told it’s unfixable on this interface (!) and I consequently swapped one of my Saffire 40’s for a Scarlett 18i20 2nd gen.
Of course, I had loads of midi interfaces at this point that I could have used. But I thought I trusted the audio interface’s MIDI port best for sync/clock purposes and kept choosing it for this every time. Big mistake!
Live and learn eh.
My main point would be- That if there is a whole thread with people upset about bugs, just wait till OB is released. Unless they do it perfectly, there are so many possibilities for problems interfacing software with hardware.
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I have a DT with usb midi and a Focusrite 2i2 (new one)…that’s the last set-up I tried to sync. I have since bought a iConnectivity 1 midi interface for my OT and it works great for triggering virtual instruments in live. And like I said before, I realized that I don’t need to sync midi clock with Ableton. I am just using my laptop now as a instrument host. I have a couple tracks of Uhe Repro’s, a couple Reaktor tracks, and a couple Ableton Simpler tracks, all being triggered by the OT sequencer, without any noticeable delay. Once I need to record into Live, I just quickly fix the warp markers or whatever after the recording is done.
This was just something I had laying around. Please note that there are a lot of shitty no-brand “cable style” USB-to-DIN MIDI cables out there. The ESI MIDIMATE II is inexpensive, but good.
I symphatize. Resolving computer issues is no fun if you just want stuff to work. If you do want specific help, don’t hesitate to ask.
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Thanx man. Very kind of you. Wish I would’ve known of that interface before i dropped 40 bucks on the one I have now. Might have to try and get it and return the one I have to GC.
Good stuff, all about finding a way that works for you with what you’ve got!
Nice choice with Repro btw! I think it’s superb.
John
Yeah, blows away most hardware I’ve used.
Please note that this was on a Mac, things might be very different on Windows.
True. I’ll keep that in mind.
On nice thing about the Mac is that it has os-level support for keeping MIDI messages in time with the audio ouput. On Windows this is traditionally more the job of the application and the hardware drivers supplied by the interface vendor.
Yeah, Mac’s are great computers. No doubt. But, at the moment I have a Windows machine.