Right, that may be how they refer to it in the DT2 manual (I haven’t checked). As long as there’s a distinction between the two in the table, it’s all good. 
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No, Sidechain is listed
Because it has been edited after this post ….
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because of your post. 
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A really helpful table, especially for beginners or undecided prospective buyers. Thanks 
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What I also find important is a comparison of the sampling start methods. By that I mean start sampling by trigs (OT), by threshold (DT, DT2, TV) or by play button (DT2).
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TV offers two sampling methods, the Recorder and the Auto Sampler.
The Recorder is exactly the same as in the DT1 and DT2, you press YES to start sampling via Threshold, or FUNC+YES to start sampling right away.
The Auto Sampler sends out MIDI notes and captures external instruments as a multi sample with velocity layers.
On OT, you have two methods of Track Recorders: Manual Sampling (start/stop via button) or Recorder Trig Sampling (sampling is started via trigs). And on top of that there is Pickup Machine Sampling, where you can record, play, overdub and replace loops.
OT can run multiple synced pickup machines simultaneously, and sample multiple sources simultaneously. All that is a bit hard to put in a table, because you need to understand what is what for it to make sense. I’ll have to think about it some more, I guess.
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Not exactly the same. DT2 allows not only threshold or manual sampling, but also to start sampling simultaneous with playback. This is useful if you want to sample beats or pattern exactly from the first beat. In this case this method is much more precise than threshold.
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Ah, yes, I see, it’s only the same between DT1 and OT, DT2 has the additional R.STRT parameter to toggle between threshold and play button to start sampling.
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While reading the TV’s manual I just discovered another difference: the DT/DT2 sequencer has step recording beside of grid and realtime recording, the TV not. Just in case you want to note this in your table.
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On Tonverk, normalization is an optional step after the sample is recorded, but before saving - on Digitakt (OG and II) it’s automatic and can’t be avoided unless loading samples in via Transfer.
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hey thats right, was there ever any word about changing that on the dt2?
I am with you and I also have not listened any example out of TV that convinced me that Tonverk is for me; I look at the Torso S4 and notwithstanding the persistent bugs I still find it more attractive and experimental
My feeling is that being a brand new iteration of Elektron sampling we just need to let it settle and mature a bit, and wait to see how people would actually use it in real world scenarios. I’m sure we’ll going to see it used in very different ways, sort of like an OT, but with different purpose.
About the differences with Torso S4, I don’t know if it would sit well in the comparison within this thread or maybe would be worth its proper “vs” thread.
Anyway, I had one from the second batch and although it was a very fun machine I sent it back 'cause all the issues we all know pretty well at this point.
In very broad strokes I think they are very different machines, that can actually lead to similar goals, but in very different ways.
Tonverk having the E-sequencer and all the usual bells and whistles of the Elektron workflow is more a complete package in my eyes, and having Elektron one of the best track record of stability/upgrades of their machines I feel somehow more inclined to put my money on it.
S4 has some very clever and really fun functionalities, but being out at this point since almost 2 years and still being afflicted by both HW/SW issues, although on a minor degree since the recent firmwares, to me is still a deal breaker, and I honestly think it could take more time to really get there.
The question though is always the same: what we wanto to achieve from this machines. For my personal use case I’m willing to trade some more fun and fast experimentation workflow for the best sequencer in town and (hopefully) more stability and a greater community from which I can learn and grab some tricks/sounds in the next years.
Also the Tonverk would just better fill in the Digitakt gaps I have, being almost a direct of upgrade of it, where the S4 would be an addition to it, not having lots of functionalities I would need anyway.
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I haven’t gone on a deep dive with what S4 is, but from what I’ve seen of it in action that sounds like a fair assessment.
The “standard” recent sampler format for a lot of samplers was 8 tracks of mono sampling and a tight sample pool (thinking Tracker/DT1 here.) Since we now have more advanced processing in hardware, it looks like some companies are pushing into granular territory with live processing of sounds rather than baking effects into the sampler.
I’ve had my hands on TV for an evening only so take this with a pinch of salt. But to me it feels like a composition workstation. The way it’s laid out with dedicated buttons for arps, chords and the song mode, and the way the sub-tracks are clearly intended for drums etc, just feels made for composition, but with some bells and whistles in terms of processing. To be fair, the mangling part is what the first promo made the biggest deal about, so it’s not unfair to compare it to the S4 etc. I’d have thought if Elektron wanted to compete with that directly, they could have put TV in the format of a Digi box, keep the track count lower, and focus in purely on granular or otherworldly processing, without the distraction of drum tracks etc.
The TV can play a similar role to the S4 (eg: add a drum machine/synth/other instrument to it if you want), but it can equally stand alone as one box to bring drums, instruments and samples into. Then you can route, effect and finalise into a performance. S4 can do all this, but you’d be looking at presumably making things off the device if making full songs, or using it as part of a wider setup.
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Although granular synthesis like in the GR-1 sounds radically different to a granular effect like in the S4, especially with polyphonic tracks, or with modulation that would affect different voices in a different way.
Depends on what you want to experiment with. S4 is freeform, TV is sequencer based.
S4’s primary domain is loops or streams, through a relatively fixed set of effects, that includes a granular effect that is notably absent from TV (and will never be implemented IMHO). It has no sequencer, but some performance features. e.g like cross-track macros, and scenes (think OT scenes, not Cirklon scenes). Since S4 can be extended with an external interface, it has more ins to feed into these effects, and more outs to feed into mixers, or other effects. So you can add complexity to the routing if you wish.
VT is more tempo based, features a dramatically more complex sampler that can be played live or sequenced, with more complex internal effect routing, more effect types, more effect modulations, and the ability to sequence effect parameters, too.
The S4 can’t be a drum machine, first and foremost because it does not have a sequencer.
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Subtracks are not drum tracks. They are a way to route several different samples with different sound parameters through the same chain of effects.
They can be used as drum tracks, but also for ambient samples, or whatever, as long as you don’t want to play them pitched.
So you want to use it with a Cirklon?
I’ve seen it requested, but it’s been a long standing request for the first DT too, with it being the same on DTII makes me doubt it’s going to be a change that gets made.
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Ehehe, I’d have wrote Hapax in that case 
, but just to clarify the point I was referring to a machine that can both makes sound and sequencing internally vs having maybe a more “creative” workflow but no sequencer (S4)
That’s exactly (one of) the point I was referring to when saying I’d pick TV over S4. It’s all we love of the Elektron platform (sequencing its internal sound engines) but with a more enhanced scope towards mere sound processing/sculpting, at least sample wise, making it more adiacent to “experimental” focused machines like the S4, CBA pedals or to some extent Iridium.
All in all, the TV sits in a weird space, where it has a pinch of a lot of different machines, but it’s not fully commited to excel in a very specifix context and that can be a great thing if it ticks all your boxes, or obviously a missed opportunity if you need more depth on one or more of its aspects.
And we have yet to see where Elektron intend to push the envelope with it, or if they even will to do such a thing.
Granular, Wavetables and some QoL features will elevate it a lot, for me, strech&slice with a better autosampler and live looping would do the same for orhers.
As it is now, minor the bugs, could replace my DTII any day, and that it’s not true for other machines I’m mentally comparing it to.
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This comparison made me realize the TV has four times the amount of project sample RAM than the og DT has total sample capacity on its +drive. Kinda crazy.
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With a TV finally on my desk, I noticed a few things that were not apparent from the manual:
- the power switch is in fact a button (though it looks like the old rocker switch)
- startup takes more than 30 second (to the point where the current project is loaded)
- TV requires shutdown, just like the models: when you press the power button you get a prompt where you can trigger the shutdown (shutdown takes 5s)
- sends, busses and mix track don’t have macros
I’ll add this as well as the info about sample start, record modes and pattern length in a couple of minutes.
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Due to an error on my part, that will be less than stellar: I ticked the wrong box in my FX table, Supervoid Reverb is only available as Insert, Master or Buss FX, so there’s maximum of 13 instances. I’ll still try it, though.