Combining external and internal sequencing

Elektron Gear Syntakt
#1

I want to sequence my syntakt externally through the midi in port the usual way. In addition, I’d also like to live record parameter changes using the internal sequencer exclusively for parameter locks, but not note data.

This means that I ideally want to receive the midi notes without recording them to the internal sequencer, since they’re handled externally anyways.

At this point I’m having trouble making this work, and I can’t figure out whether this is impossible to begin with, or if I’m doing something wrong. If it’s the latter, could someone guide me through the proper setting to only record internal parameter changes while I exclude any note data?

#2

I understand it’s a bit weird use case, so… not possible? :joy:

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#3

It sort of depends on the use case how you might work around this. If you record in your automations and notes, and then click FN + [TRIG] on all the red trigs, then they’ll all be yellow or “trigless” trigs and just have the automations.

If it’s for performance, I’d suggest trying to use the sound macros, where MW/PB/AT/BC can each change up to 4 parameters. If you record those movements either on your external sequencer or on a midi loopback track, that’s one way to separate parameter changes from note entry, though you’d need to mute the instrument track in the sequencer. I show how to sequence sound macros with midi loopback in this video: https://youtu.be/01D8e0w7fSs , though automating/tweaking the macros from your other sequencer is likely more straightforward.

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#4

So, if I understand you right, this allows me to wash off recorded note values, while retaining parameter data from the internal sequencer? I’m always working in a live setting, so this might actually be doable, without too much fiddling!

#5

Yes. I have three Syntakt tracks configured to receive Midi notes on their own dedicated channels so I can either play or sequence them externally (if I want to). Parameter automation still works.

#6

Yes, just tried it. It doesn’t erase them, but turning the trigs yellow means the sequencer won’t play the note (difference being: if you wanted to turn them red again, by tapping them, the recorded note will return—also, it won’t just erase any parameter changes that happened to coincide with a note).

Just tried this, and I think the best way is:
1: Mute your desired track in the sequencer, and play both ST and external sequencer.
2: Make your parameter changes. (NB these will modify the playing track even if it’s muted.)
3: FN + TRIG on all the red triggers in the sequence while it’s still muted—that way no doubled or hung notes from doubling on the sequence.
4: Unmute the track on ST, and it will play the parameter changes.

The only downside is that it does so per-step, so it could be jumpy depending on what you’re doing—using an LFO is always an option for a smooth slide of 1 or 2 parameters.

#7

Hmm, odd. I tried recording the knob movements, which works fine. Also, FUNC + TRIG to omit the note values when playing works as expected.

However, the parameter locked values aren’t played back as individual trig parameter values. Instead the track plays the static parameter value currently displayed, just like playback without parameter locks.

#8

Sorry, it worked for me, so I’m not sure how to troubleshoot except to suggest pressing one of the yellow trigs while it’s playing unmuted—that might get it going, and also should modify the parameter while it’s being pressed to test it. One that tripped me up is I forgot to start the Syntakt sequencer, but I think that’s just me before I’ve had all my coffee…

#9

i have the same pb here, i here the modifactions only when i press on the yellow trig, cant seem to make this work, this si too bad cause i would lie to use the arp on the octa, and the arranger mode too in the octa, this way on the syntakt i could have only trigless trigs with probability for random changes in the sequence, i can do it in the oct but i only have 10 cc to assign so i want super transformed trigs with parameters that i dont touch on the other trigs i cant manage to do this … too bad cause this combo is a killer and if i can do this thing it gives still more power (ut i could do without, the combination is already super powerfull!)

#10

i tried this the other way around, by triggering the notes with syntakt internal seq and sending parameter changes via the octatrack on the same midi channel, and it works perfectly fine … but doing this i cant fully use the octa arp as i have to “copy” the arp pattern in the syntakt sequencer, and when i use arrangement mode i have to make 2 arrangements, one on the octa and one on the syntakt …

#11

Welcome @gopalito.

What about sending arp and CCs from OT ?

#12

yes that’s what i do, but idealy i would like to have conditionnal parameters locks on the syntakt sequencer that i can mute or unmute in the syntakt track, but this is a not sooooo necessary, i was just intersted in testing it …

#13

You can set conditional trigs (TRCs) on an OT track.

Afaik Digitone is the only Elektron that can be triggered externally with notes and apply internal plocks to them.

So with ST I tried a different approach: plock red trigs, default note, set velocity to 1, and change velocity and notes with CCs (see midi chart). I used a midi processor to filter notes.

So you can ear plocked notes only when you play (velocity high) and tuned to incoming notes (mapped to NOTE parameter CCs.
Check ST Notes and Velocity CCs and send them from OT for
instance)

(Digitone example below, notes are played live, there are only trigless plocked to get drum sounds for instance, no sound if I don’t play. Works with external midi : here I used midi loopback)

#14

yes i did not think about this approach with velocity, but why i seem to be unable to do it, i because when i set an arp on the OT, whatever triggers i put in the syntakt (red or yellow trigs) i can not “unselect” or change the note and the velocity settings for said trig, it takes whatever comes from the OT …
so for now maybe ill stick with sequencing a few tracks with the octa arp and rogram the ccs in it, but it would be really powrfull to have 2 sequencers, one for notes and vlocity, and one for messing with the parameters of the sound .
thx anyway,and your synth sound on the hydra video reminded me crystal castles magic spells, i always liked this song, so your demo was cool to hear

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#15

I am using Note and Velocity parameters CCs, I don’t send notes.

See what I mean ?

CC 3 and 4.

Screenshot_20240217-152400_Adobe Acrobat
Screenshot_20240217-152400_Adobe Acrobat2400×1080 238 KB

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#16

yes it works , thank you i will dive more into it in the next days