Clairvoyance

[Fin25]

@darenager

Yes, and this kind of thing was poo hooed as new age mumbo jumbo by science just a few decades ago

There is no “science”.

There is only the portrayal of science by the media and those that would nominate themselves “experts”.

There is only the scientific method, vigorous research and peer review, which cannot, and does not, try to be an authority over reality as so much is yet to be properly measured, researched, reviewed and understood.

Often when science is said to have poo pooed or denied something, it is based on a study or studies which found no evidence of such things. As any scientist knows, no evidence of something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, it just means you found no evidence of it. Of course that lack of evidence is then taken up by the less scientifically well disciplined to use in their argument either for or against whatever.

Don’t blame science, blame idiots with an agenda.

[darenager]

Fully agree. I’m not seeking to blame anything, just saying stuff which has no scientific evidence can’t always be dismissed as rubbish, though a lot can.

[thermionic]

There’s a big difference between personal meaning/experiential and suggesting broader contexts at least.

@darenager

Yes, and this kind of thing was poo hooed as new age mumbo jumbo by science just a few decades ago.

They weren’t, though.

[darenager]

@thermionic

They weren’t, though.

Yeah probably a bad choice of wording, for sure I should have said some in the scientific community did indeed dismiss trance, meditation, etc under the hippy, new age, crystal, drug culture, etc banner.

[Symian]

[xmit]

I have always been arch-rational :always looking for the answer that fits what we know of science, of physics, of the cause-&-effect way we’re taught to look at the world.

And most of this time - 99% of the time - this is right, the world does work like that.

But as I’ve got older, actual life experience & the life experience of people I know & trust who’ve told me things, has taught me sometimes the world doesn’t work like this. Science, rationalism, just sometimes does not explain certain things away. And often, in trying to do so, it ends up being a more ridiculous account than the thing it’s trying to disprove.

I’d call myself an ‘open-minded- sceptic’ : closing yourself off to things that cannot be easily explained away by the normal mechanisms doesn’t make you smart, it makes you dumb.

[Strutter]

I have a habit of watching Jeffrey Mishlove’s “Thinking Allowed” and the new version “New Thinking Allowed” and he has had some quite interesting guests on talking about remote viewing and related matters.

It seems like my susceptibility on this stuff fluctuates quite a bit.
At times it’s mostly entertaining but sometimes these questions really do get a hold of me.

Concepts like the unified field and collective unconscious are hard to prove or disprove and there have been many weird discoveries when investigating these matters.

There being some previously untapped mental/psychic potential seems possible to me but the overall attitude and demeanor of most of these gurus and masters talking about this stuff seems very dishonest and opportunistic.

[swanage_fan]

at school i watched as some friends did a ouija board. they asked it “which girl does jon (me) fancy?” and sure enough it spelled out the initials of the girl at school that everyone liked…except me…i had zero interest in her lol, i was hopelessly in love with someone else. that’s when i knew it was fake as fuck

[onthebannedwagon]

No offense but I read your name as “sewage fan” and thought to myself: what a great name!

[hausland]

Our current collective worldview is one of mechanical materialism where we assume that

A. impact between two objects must be of material nature to be significant/real (realis = relating to things)

B. Any material relationship between two objects will be governed by underlying mechanical forces that render such relationships measurable, predictable and thus repeatable.

The implicit assumption tends to be that if it is not material and/or not repeatable it’s not real.

While we practice an almost religious faith in the scientific method and its omnipotency to explain nature, its inherent tenets of objectivism, reductionism and causality actually fall short of large parts of reality itself and hence are wholly inadequate to explore these parts of reality.

Anything subjective/intersubjective springs to mind immediately, but not only the subjective escapes the scientific method…holistic, complex situations (which is basically most of reality outside a lab situation) do to, something that Leonhard Euler pointed towards already in 1767 with his three-body problem and scientists have tried to address with eg the emergence of systems theory (and its sub-disciplines complexity theory and chaos theory).

That said, one of the most beautiful qualities of the scientific method is genuine open-mindedness and its inherent skepticism towards any explanation (=narrative) of a phenomena to categorically avoid dogma and/or ideology taking over the quest for understanding reality and discovering truth.

Unfortunately those tenets have morphed into a dogmatic skepticism towards anything that doesn’t fit into the classical/mechanical worldview and/or defies long established, collectively agreed-upon explanations of why things are they way they are. In other words, we leverage “science” to justify not being open-minded, curious and generally unsure of how things ACTUALLY are.

Or to put it differently:
Anyone that’s ever dropped a large dose of mushrooms or smoked DMT or salvia divinorum will know that shit can become “supernatural”, defying our dominant conception of reality, real quick…lol

Personally, I am always skeptical of paranormal accounts as so many psycho-somatic factors can impact our way of seeing and perceiving in any given moment, but I wouldn’t dare being outright dismissive of such accounts - partially because of my own “oh shit” experiences in life thus far and partially because that would be profoundly unscientific.

I’m friends with a world-renowned quantum physicist and when we first met and clicked she told me that we know hardly anything about reality and its underlying fabric to the point where she had begun researching the world’s wisdom traditions for additional perspectives and clues that could help her in her work (her field’s quantum gravity).

I’m really intrigued by the many different accounts in this thread, thanks to all who have shared thus far — it’s in fact quite brave of you to do so and I salute you.

[MichaalHell]

@LyingDalai

I wonder if the placebo effect or just coincidence is sufficient to explain this. To me it does.
But I’d be glad to have scientific proofs that human have more powers than using tools.
In this regard studies done on Corine Sombrun and the transe state are a very good thing, IMO.

I think its interesting that people use Placebo in such a negative term.
I find the Placebo effect to be incredible… its a testament to our (at times) supernatural abilities…

isnt it incredible that your body healed by itself, just because you believed it well enough!

the problem with Placebo though, is that you cant actually use it as a practice (without disguising it as something else coughHomoeopathycough). Or maybe that is the key, if we believe in our abilities enough we become super human!

hehe, thats a thought

[ghostbuddy]

Yeah, synchronicity. Not sure what to make of it, as the moments are more about feeling than fact. At the least we, humans are very inclined to give meaning to those moments. I’ve experienced a fair amount, as well as other Jungian phenomenom. Interesting topic.

[LyingDalai]

@MichaalHell

I think its interesting that people use Placebo in such a negative term.

I wasn’t being negative at all. I love Placebo (and used to like the band too).

I have been conditioned in my childhood to believe that a glass of water was the best medicine.
As soon as I had e.g. a headache, bellyache or even if I was a bit down, my mother would tell me to drink a large glass of water to get better.
Even if I know it’s just placebo (although dehydration is a thing), today I’ll get a glass of water as first medicine, and I tell my children to get one as well
I can only encourage such practice, as it is as powerful as harmful.

Placebo is the closest we can get to a paranormal effect is taken into account scientifically, IMO.

[ccr]

@MichaalHell

the problem with Placebo though, is that you cant actually use it as a practice (without disguising it as something else

Fyi, there actually is increasing research and advocacy for open-label (i.e. non-deceptive) placebo use, for example for chronic pain. See, for example, the Program in Placebo Studies at Harvard Medical School (www.programinplacebostudies.org).

[ghostbuddy]

@LyingDalai

Placebo is the closest we can get to a paranormal effect is taken into account scientifically, IMO.

There’s nothing paranormal about placebo though?

[kristof]

I sometimes have a feeling that somebody is watching me in the street , and than i look up intuitively only to look straight in the eyes of a person watching me from a window…i don’t think this is a supernatural thing … i do believe humans have certain senses that are being underused or have been surpressed during evolution .

[ghostbuddy]

@hausland

The implicit assumption tends to be that if it is not material and/or not repeatable it’s not real.

I think the problem here is the word “real”. Is subjective experience real? Yes, since you’re experiencing it it must be real. However is it only happening in your subjective reality? Is it real if no one else is experiencing it, and it leaves no evidence of ever happening? I don’t think it’s very useful to try and define these experiences in terms used for science or shall we say real world phenomenom.

[LyingDalai]

@ghostbuddy

nothing paranormal about placebo

“Paranormal” means it’s not entirely explained by Science. I think Placebo is in the grey zone…

[MichaalHell]

Sorry for being unclear, i wasnt implying that you were negative… it was more a blanket statement towards peoples reaction as soon as you mention Placebo.

In fact a really interesting thing has happened to my sister in law… in regards to placebo.
i married in to a family of devote christian´s, my wife is christian and i am agnostic.

My sister in law has been sick for 6 years with [

Myalgic encephalomyelitis and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome …

](Myalgic encephalomyelitis and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS))

she had´nt gone out of bed for 2 years and needed help from her husband with every necessity.

One night she had a dream. she dreamt that she was in a hole in the ground and Jesus came and looked down into the hole at her, reached out his hand and helped her out of the hole. he gave her a hug and looked back at the hole and told her " you will never be down there again". And then she woke up…

after this dream she slowly began to recover. a week after the dream, we got a video call from her. it was the first time i had talked to her in 3 years. the whole family visited us this summer. the first time in 4 years. she´s still recovering since she´s lost alot of muscle mass over the years, but she seems to be going strong and it doesnt seem to be a fluke. her doctors cant explain it and her case is the first ever recorded of someone recovering from ME this fast.

they of course think this came from god, i think its placebo (allthough it dont say it out loud)
when i told my wife, my thoughts on the matter, she immediately reacted negative to the use of the word placebo. Instead of seeing the incredible power we seem to have innate within us, people tend to think of it as a person being so gullable that they believed it into existence.

[ghostbuddy]

Just because we haven’t figured out the exact mechanism by which placebo works doesn’t mean there’s anything paranormal about it. I mean we don’t exactly know how SSRI’s and other psych meds work either.

There are known knowns, knowns unknowns and unknown unkowns. Placebo is a known unknown, paranormal stuff is unkown unkown