Cirklon V2

Cirklon V2 has color screen and faster CPU (and USBmidi and ethernet). What else is upgraded? I feel like I am missing something, considering I never read any complaints on V1 CPU speed.

I mean, faster is always better (stronger etc) but I genuinely don’t understand how is V2 worth the upgrade, specially considering the component shortage - and all those hundreds of V1 updated unit boards that went to trash.
Didn’t it end up creating even more scarcity issues? (company logistics/user satisfaction/speculative 2nd hand market) How is it worth it?

I’m not trying to instigate hate here, just trying to get constructive criticism and understanding as somebody on the list for years who never tried any cirklon.

EDIT: While writing this post I can’t help but wonder how I might be missing something obvious like: maybe V2 was developed also because of components (change of parts that were even more scarce?) maybe I shouldn’t speculate/criticize about something I have no idea about, like gear development logistics. And I keep reading how Cirklon is designed by a prodigy genius; but I still get curious how did it get to this point of ridiculously long waiting list and 2ndhand speculative market.

People want the upgrade (for futureproofing) and color screen.

I don’t think anyone’s in line for the upgrade because they’ve ran out of resources.

V2 was created as a part of their pivot to a better manufacturing process, it did not create any scarcity issues that weren’t present in the old manufacturing process (and continuing pandemic supply chain!), and the 2nd hand market already existed due to delays.

Sure, you can discuss some amount of e-waste due to any disposed of board.

But V2 was necessary for the company to remain in future operation, and to even begin to take a chunk out of the backlog, and while everything is snail pace due to other logistical SNAFUs, it’s working so far, years of backlog are being eaten away at even still.

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It never hurts to raise available memory and cpu resources before you hit the limits. Constant upgrades means constant raise in using available resources

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Oh yes, there were a number of reasons that led them to upgrade the aging platform and process.

Availability, futureproofing, don’t have insight into any other specific reasons. I was mostly responding to the questions about why current owners may upgrade since v1 hasn’t hit any caps to diverge the codebase (yet.)

Is it fair to say the software side of things have not progressed much due to the ongoing relocations and demand?

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MPE may need more hefty processing power.

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The new CVIO breakout box is super small compared to the old one, btw. If space is an issue, it’s probably worth getting this one instead of mounting a spare case to the eurorack one.

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V2 has USB host functionality and will support RTP-MIDI over the ethernet port eventually.

In addition, from the quoted post from Colin over on the Sequentix forum it sounds like V1 will soon receive its last updates, after which I presume the two versions will start to diverge more.

Code size is at 94% without CVIO/dmux update support, 97.4% with.
The final changes I’d like to make for ck1 likely won’t fit in the last 2.6%, so dropping the unnecessary updates will be worth it.
CK2 is only at 47%, so there’s no issue there.

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Thanks for noting the specific benefits, not worrying about my position in the queue has me far less informed than i’d usually care to be :wink:

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you can get pretty darn small eurorack cases, from 4ms for example. but my suggestion is basically irrelevant anyway, as the difference in price between the desktop breakout box and the eurorack module isn’t as large as I thought it was. :upside_down_face:

and damn that older one was pretty huge! also, I think there’s someone selling one right now on the Sequentix forum.

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A night in the lab trying to figure out what the future sounded like

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Is anybody sequencing the Octatrack audio tracks (1-8) via the Cirklon.

My V1 arrived last night and this one is puzzling me.

Cirklon is triggering Octatrack track 1 ok but not the others. (all setup as T1= MIDI CH 1, T2= MIDI CH2 etc etc)

I have the Octatrack set as Multichannel with a Cirklon Pattern each so only one instrument definition.

For my Syntakt it works fine

Edit: ignore - RTFM (Octatrack)

Didn’t see a response to this so thought I’d reply in case you still don’t know :slight_smile:

Yes effects units with MIDI CC capabilities can have instrument definitions - you can assign each parameter and label it - and then have pages of the devices parameters available in the track values page for the fx unit.

Eventide H9 for example then becomes a playable device beyond the actual units single knob.
But equally as handy is that you can then assign a pattern to the track and quickly design automation on any MIDI CC and know what each MIDI CC is without needing a manual to check, as they are still labelled from assigning them as track values.
Push wet up everytime you reach the end of 64 bars - takes 10 secs to create a pattern. Change delay time every 7th 16th - agin very easy to do. And can then use another track assigned to the same instrument and automate another parameter and so on and so on…

(A note on H9 is i set up one for delay algorithms one for reverbs etc etc, that way the instrument definitions are labelled with algo relevant terms as MIDI CC xx is say delay time or reverb something or chorus something else depending on algorithm)

Re: MIDI INs (remember can use USB as a MIDI IN from your DAW for example too)

I have a master keyboard - all other synths connected are set up to be ‘edtrk’s so can all be used to input note data into whichever Cirklon track is selected, and also a Tempest as another MIDI IN if wanting to play Rhythms from its pads.

MIDI IN can also be used to transpose everything playing from the Cirklon, and can also be used to change Cirklon’s scenes.

You can also re-route internally so devices connected to Cirklon In can also send MIDI data to devices connected to Cirklon MIDI outputs - perhaps decide one day to use Octatrack arp to sequence a synth usually sequencer from Cirklon for example.

In terms of multi timbral instruments like your Digitone example.

When you create an instrument definition there is a check box for making it a ‘multi instrument’ this will then treat it as a multi timbral instrument - and to the right of its name in the track page there will be a number which indicates which MIDI channel is playing. You can highlight this number and change it, and also when you assign the same instrument to another track it will set it to the following MIDI channel to save having to do it yourself.

The handy part about this is that the MIDI CC labels are done once and apply to all MIDI channels - as if you assign an instrument def to each mid channel you will need to either do the labels again manually on the machine, or by using a text editor copy and paste into each channels instrument definition. Not a massive deal but doing it once on the machine is generally my choice. Exception is drum machines that have different parameters per voice - such as Jomox or Tr09 say - that way I’ll have a inst def for each voice - as once the Jomox snare is assigned I can quickly access the parameters relevant only to the snare on the track page rather than having to scroll through pages of the whole machines parameters.

The other factor to consider with the Cirklon is what they call Force to scale (FTS)

This means that you can set it to on for sat a synth and you can transpose the whole scene and it’ll stay in scale rather than just a raw transposition of all notes it’ll make notes sharp and flat where needed to remain true to scale. And this can be on a track by track basis. Super useful but it’s relevance here is that for rhythmic based things you probably (although can still have uses if drums are tuned…) don’t want you drums being transposed as generally it’ll push say the kick notes up so that it plays a snare instead for example, so for rhythmic based things you’d generally turn FTS to OFF in the instrument definition. But the need for duplicates arises if you use the device for rhythms and music - such as a sampler.

So I have the exact same instrument definition labelled with FTS at the end and use this for music and other for rhythms. For example:

Akai S950
Akai S950 FTS

In terms of sequencing on the machines or not. I went through a stage of doing everything on cirklon apart from elektron machines - then all through Cirklon as doing longer patterns is just easier this has the added benefit of meaning that as pattern data isn’t saved in the Elektron you can use patterns on DN/DT/SN as AR/A4 kits… unexpected benefit.

Currently I’m doing all of the above - it’s been good to work in both ways as makes it fluid and keeps it fresh as can work whichever way I fancy on that day - and utilise the options as best for track. But generally Cirklon does most heavy lifting as I’m into structures and placing fills across long periods of time and it’s just easier for me to achieve that with Cirklon the quickest.

Hope that’s useful.

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Hi Dave,

Thanks for the awesome reply, very helpful. Ive spent the weekend playing with it and making some nice progress.

I sussed out the multi instrument setting in the Instrument Definitions therefore blasting away with my Elektrons triggering its tracks with a diff MIDI channel (Though the Octatrack confused me for a bit, the way its triggered differently). Also got USB Midi sequencing Omnisphere in my DAW etc

I did experiment using the Elektrons own sequencers just using the Cirklons song / scene structure to organise patterns and trigger their changes - however I came across the one-bar late pattern change despite having the Cirklons early PC enabled. I guess if a Elektrons pattern is 64 steps it will always wait until the end of the sequence before change therefore I would have to pre-plan things better across multiple hardware unless there is something I am dong wrong and it should be a quick change regardless of pattern length.

Anyhow this kind of pushed me towards sequencing with the Cirklon where you do not have to worry about what the Elektrons are doing and like yourself I have been sending a PC message to put the Elektron on the right “kit”. I think this is where I will head for now in my experiments as I get to know the Cirklon but like you say it’s easy to revert back or use both methods.

Track Values - noted you do not need to duplicate for multi timbral / channel instrument. Ive only got as far as Program Change in this department to get the various attached instruments on the right “kit” / Pattern. I presume this is where you also send your Program Change. I did read you could also enter them on an Aux but it seems a waste since these are limited (not delved into Aux commands yet)

Regarding using MIDI in - would this allow me to have bi-direction communication for the track value settings? eg the virtual TV knobs always start at neutral setting. not what the machine currently displays. Regarding USB MIDI in - any handy uses that would this be for? I guess also bi-direction comms for soft synths and receiving instructions from DAW if need be (Though I have a E-RM hooked up to sync the Cirklon with DAW if recording)

Octatrack has taken a backseat for now - I guess it will focus more on sampling and scenes - though using the ARP did cross my mind as technically the Cirklon does not have a dedicated one. I was getting some nice ARP sounds going on the Cirklon using the LAST function and shortening the sequencer pattern and playing with the notes.

Just setting up my master keyboard (Edtrk Thru: On) but units not responding - will have a further play.

One option you can also consider is using the scale-related Track Values. So, not only can each track have its own scale, root, transpose etc. but it means you can override the Scene’s scale in this way, effectively bypassing FTS for tracks without having to define ‘FTS-free’ instruments.
The only slight ballache is having to keep adding these TVs each time you think they’re handy - so they tend to end up in different orders for different instruments. So it’s not as neatly-accessible as, say, Cubase’s Inspector but it also means you can pick only those you want for each instrument too, so swings and roundabouts.

Facebook just offered this shot from 12 years ago, before my hair turned inexplicably white :wink:

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Aha very good point - I solved this situation before the per track scale options were added. Your suggestion of using them to bypass need for an extra definition per instrument is great. Thanks :slight_smile:

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There is a setting in the instrument definition called ‘presend pgm change’ which was added for this reason; enabling this in elektron inst definitions will mean patterns change as expected, as it sends the pgm change message just before the end of the bar rather than at the start of the bar.

I have a Push 2 and a Korbot that make use of this feature. Essentially any USB controller connected to your DAW can be used to input notes/data into the Cirklon.

I don’t do a lot of two way Comms with devices so not sure on that but should work in theory. Few times I’ve done it, it’s handy when devices push out all MIDI CCs after changing patches this helps to keep Cirklon track values in sync with the actual values on the synth at any given time.

I use the USB to communicate with my OP1 via my Mac. I sequence it from the Cirklon (never got on with the tape deck on that thing…) and can also use it to play notes into the Cirklon. though I don’t typically do that for entering notes (I have multiple synths doing this) it is an option in my setup. there are some quirky sequencing options in the OP1, so it is fun to play with playing these into the Cirklon.

I did select this on my Elektrons - I will have another go at it, unless I forgot to save it when editing the settings!!