Chromatic sample playback via rate, not pitchshift?

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#1

Hi elektronauts,

Wondering if the octatrack can do this in 2018:

  1. Can I record a sample (e.g. middle C on a minimoog), and play it back chromatically with a midi keyboard, using good old-fashioned rate-shifting rather than pitch-shifting? As with an MPC or sampling keyboard, where playing higher notes gives shorter duration, lower notes give longer duration. I want to avoid the timbral changes of a pitch/time-shifting algorithm. I don’t want to preserve duration. Just old-school sample playback controlled by rate.

  2. If I can do that, can I assign velocity to control things like filter cutoff or amplitude envelope? I don’t mind mapping velocity to a different CC with an external midi processor like midipal.

  3. Is it possible to use the crossfader as an ersatz tape transport control? e.g. scene A is fast reverse play, scene B is fast fwd play, middle is stopped. Somewhere to right of middle is normal fwd play. Somewhere to left of middle is normal reverse play.

I had an octatrack back in the day for a few months, but couldn’t figure out how to do the above. I’m looking at a MK2 now, wondering if things have changed since.

Thanks very much! Best, minphase

#2

  1. Yep, disable timestrech, you have rate shifting. One octave up and down max with a keyboard.
    You can pitch down more and reverse with the RATE parameter. Possible to assign it with a midi processor to play it with midi notes.

  2. No velocity assignments, even for Volume. You can record / send velocity with midi tracks only. Midi processor again. :wink:

  3. Yes with RATE parameter and Pitch +12. But you can’t use it as vinyl !
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEA8nhpOQ3A

Don’t concentrate on what OT can’t do, but on what it can do that other samplers can’t do ! Step sequencer, parameter locks, morphing 250 parameters with the crossfader, 48 lfos…

I bought again an MPC 1000 JJOS2XL after a few weeks with OT, but I didn’t use it ! Sold. I bought a cheap MPC 500, just in case I need linear midi recording, more polyphony, midi overdub, sample layers…

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#3

Track recorders, recorder buffers, per step! :smiley:

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#4

Sure ? Great feature ! Where is my manual ? :smile:
I tired of listing all OT qualities…:wink:

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#5

Thanks very much, gentlemen!

One further question comes to me. I’m interested in tape looping a la Phonogene, but on mulriple simultanoeous tracks. Can I record one loop of duration, say 15 seconds on track 1, set it looping, then record a new loop on track 2 of 6 seconds duration, and set that looping too.? In other words, they are both independent of any external clock or grid, looping at their own length.

Best, minphase

#6

8 independant recorders, 8 audio tracks, 8 midi tracks.

You can start / stop any of the recorders at anytime and loop them automatically. You can quantize rec / stop / play or not.

You can play a recording with any audio track, even several tracks, even several recordings per track, using step sequencer trigs. These tracks need a FLEX machine, playing recordings in the 85.5 MB RAM directly. You can also play several long recordings with STATIC machines, after you saved them on the Compact Flash Card.

Tracks with Pichup machines works differently, recorders are linked to the track and there’s no trig). They allow overdub, if Octatrack is not slaved.

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#7

Hey @Open_Mike, do you think it is possible to record several loops with different lengths and no timestrech or tempo sync with Pickups ? I tried without success. Seems they are related to Master Pickup or Seq Tempo.

The idea is to record loops that would play looped directly after recording, with their own tempo, without trig or a one shot trig.

#8

I’ve noticed funny things with different length loops, sometimes OT changes tempo to try to sync them, need to experiment more with different settings… I usually use PU’s for pattern length multiples… Probably a job for track recorders…

#9

Yep, but the idea is to play recordings just after their record. I think I can do it with plays free midi tracks, one with a sample trig note just after rec.

I also tried with audio plays free tracks and one shots for play and rec, not success.

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#10

Might work with PU’s all playback page Len setting: off, set qrec but not qpl… :thinking: Can’t test… I’d experiment with different combos of those three settings…

I’m thinking something along the lines of one-shot track recorder or manual record+one-shot play trig or manual launch with buffer set to loop, but tricky to launch at an undetermined time if you don’t know what the length will be… :thinking:

If sampling something your not physically playing maybe quick on the draw manual quantized recorder stop and a quick hit of the trig in tracks mode with same quantize settings( a few steps) sample set to loop…

There’s probably some sneaky way, can’t test, machines are napping…

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#11

you can do it with transport off - I was doing this with track recorders manually lifting off a fraction after its respective neighbour, so you get maybe four tracks with similar length 100% 101% 102% 103% - if you play those recordings for Reich style phasing they can be encouraged to loop independently by playing/looping them manually … but only with transport off

if you want to predefine recorder length or have transport on it gets more tricky to get loops independent in flexible/dynamic ways - but it’s relatively easy with transport off and manual capture followed by manual play (scriptable in midi in Max/Lemur/etc to make it more seamless)

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#12

With Pickups or Flex ? And they are played directly after recording or you have to play them manually ?

Actually I succeeded with a one shot midi free track with a Combo Rec C4 and a C6 for sample trig just after. REC One2, pressing twice the PF midi track.

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#13

flex iirc - to get playback(manual) directly following recording(manual) I scripted it to automatically play the four tracks when the fourth record off was complete - I guess what I’m saying is that if you want to have unusual lengths running synchronously then transport off lets you do stuff that would be compromised by the firmware trying to shoehorn you into a 4/4 paradigm

it’s all doable manually but playing manually after recording manually may be hard to time well if timing is important

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#14

Physically not easy too !

So it works seamlessly with 8 plays free midi tracks for 8 recordings playing at different length, played directly at the end if the recording. :thup:

Midi tracks are one shot plays free ONE mode
1st trig C#4
2nd trig C6 with - 23/384 microtiming.

Surprisingly, One2 didn’t work with Combo Rec (C4), but it worked with REC AB (C#4). Any idea ?

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#15

You did this with MAX, sending midi notes ?
Seems very interesting, curious about it , even if I think I’ll stick with regular midi stuff.

I hope @minphase is not too afraid, but as he apparently knows midi processors…
So I could record and play 8 tracks with different lengths, and play them directly with speed between X2 and reverse X2. I usually do my best to sync everything to a definite tempo, so it was very interesting. Thanks for asking ! :slight_smile:

#16

I got a clunky workaround for part of this. I got nostalgic for my old akai with this straight-into-loop sampling ‘dj sampler’ style thing, so I wanted to make it happen!

Track 1 is a thru set to A B, but HOLD max REL zero (or near zero)
Track 2 is a flex set to its own rec buffer. Timestretch off, loop on, set to record A B, but with TRIG set to HOLD

Track 2 must be the active track. Quick rec must be on

Without running the sequencer you hold track 1 trig button (step 9 button) to monitor the incoming, then hold the recA B button to sample the bit you want, keeping the trig button held too. When you’re ready to loop you release those two buttons just as you press the track 2 trig (step 10 button) - switching from live input to loop. yay. kinda…

So I don’t use pickups much but I’m pretty sure this method dodges the BPM locking and would allow for several independent loops grabbed on the fly and running at different durations…

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Autoplay recorder buffer?
Problem: Pickup Machines Individual Length?
Setting up for not-synced live looping of guitar and synth
Setting up for not-synced live looping of guitar and synth
#17

Copied track 2 to the other tracks. Changed the assigned buffers to their own ones and you can grab several loops that run independently, Reich style.

You have to change active track for each loop you grab

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#18

I had to read several times but I understood ! Clever !

For quick recordings on the fly, I think hold is better, because with One2 you can invert rec start / stop. With midi tracks control I’d need to use a midi processor to play just after rec.
But it’s even better to use audio free tracks to play. I already tested it once (from @dustmotes idea) :
Cascading playable fun

3 Likes
#19

Thanks a million! I think what @avantronica mentioned will suffice for me – manual playback, without the transport engaged. I’m happy to play with pre-captured loops, it’s not necessary for me to begin playback immediately upon capture. But the thought experiment that you fellows have followed is pretty amazing, and beyond me. I did go ahead and put in an order for an Octatrack today, however! Thanks ever so much for all the kind replies and thought.

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#20

:slight_smile: I hope you’ll enjoy it as we do.
Learning curve can be a bit long, no need to hurry to understand / master everything at the beginning, just focus on what you really want to do first, and the rest will come. :wink:

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