CC#64 (sustain) echo issue using MIDI loopback

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#1

Hi

Could anyone with a setup that uses midi loopback please confirm the following:

When sending a CC#64 (sustain pedal message) to the OT in directconnect mode =off, and we’re using midi loopback, the CC#64 will eventually (very quickly in fact no need to wait for ages) get into a midi feedback. Eventually, it’ll start to send a flow of reset messages. I didn’t check will all 127 other CC’s, but tested a few, and this seems only to happen with sustain.

Because the OT commands external synths, this ends up by freezing my Blofeld.

I have filtered this specific message out of the loop so it’s no showstopper (could have been, lost an hour or so yesterday to figure out why my Blofeld froze every once in a while) , but maybe I stumbled upon a bug.

#2

I checked but only with OT + midi cable.
No freeze sending CC64, CC direct connect off or on, channel 1 or 9.

Why do you use direct connect off?
CC remapping?

#3

Why shouldn’t I?

#4

what’s merging midi in to ot ?

#5

I didn’t say you shouldn’t. More curiosity. With direct connect off you have to remap CCs, and you can control midi tracks parameters.

#6

I think it’s an ICM4+.

#7

Yes it is a iCM4+. Nothing is routed to the OT except my MFC10, and the loopback.

#8

As a rule of a thumb, if I don’t know what it’s useful for in my set-up and it’s a thingy I never heard of before, I turn it off. I’ll experiment with that when the need for it will reveal itself. I’m very old school, in my midi world the default is “not echoing any input to the output, that what the thru port is for”. I understand this is for remote control of external synth modules from the OT (switching local control off) but I favor synths with mucho nice knobs so I don’t really need it anyway…

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#9

This is still an issue, I get feedback with all CC’s in fact. It doesn’t matter if I use a cable or the midi interface to establish the midiloop, nor does it matter what setting directconnect is on.

@sezare56, you are using this a lot too, what are you doing that’s different from my setup?

EDIT: I think I found it. The manual says:

Messages received on the MIDI channel of the active MIDI track always behave as if CC DIRECT CONNECT is activated.

so obviously, when I try to control external hardware from the OT using the assignable knobs for CC changes on a midi track, it’s not possible to have a midiloop established, because I send (thus receive too) on the same channel as that (neccessarily active) midi track.

The manual also says:

If an audio track and a MIDI track share the same MIDI channel, the MIDI track will block the audio track from sending out data while the audio track will block the MIDI track from receiving data.

So when I tried midi loopback following @sezare56 advice to set all audiochannels to the same midichannel in order to achieve a “control all” function, the incoming midi received via the loopback was blocked by the audio channels, so I had no feedback ON THAT CHANNEL ONLY, and his trick worked perfectly.

In other words, what I discovered is this:

Messages received on the MIDI channel of the active MIDI track always behave as if CC DIRECT CONNECT is activated unless that channel is also assigned to an audio track

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#10

I don’t know what can be different except 1.30B MKI.

Same with new project, if you only set the midi channel corresponding to the audio track and set CCs?

#11

I edited my previous post, I think I found what happens (wasn’t allowed to post more than 3 times in a row)

#12

Yep. So you apparently found…
Please confirm! :slight_smile:
I’m too busy to check now.

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#13

I absolutely confirm. Audio channel on same channel as active midi channel, no feedback. No audiochannel on same channel: feedback. And the auto-generated data stream is distributed to all midi devices the OT is patched into, which l can lead to serious chaos…

EDIT: wish I could deactivate that feature…

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#14

Which one?

#15

Messages received on the MIDI channel of the active MIDI track always behave as if CC DIRECT CONNECT is activated

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#16

I follow up for other users that might encunter the same issue: it starts to get tricky when ALL channels emit messages. For whatever reason I got a “all notes off” loop this afternoon, on both the enabled midi channels I had active on the OT (and no audio tracks with the same channel present). I don’t know what initiated the “all notes off” message. I needed to reboot all the external hardware, everyone went crazy… For me, midiloopback is a great technique, but whenever not necessary I’d advice to switch it off. Or filter the hell out of it, using only 1 channel with it’s audio counterpart enabled, and block everything else…

#17

I used midi loopback with OT only most of the time, eventually with it’s Thru.
Safe as long as you control audio tracks with midi tracks.

Maybe I used it with a merger only once.

#18

OT quick double stop sends an all notes off message.

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#19

Ok thanks, good to know!

#20

And also when you double stop OT will send all CC’s for unmuted midi tracks, muted midi tracks will after double stop send there CC’s once you unmute them, regardless if they are the same values as the last ones sent…

Just throwing that out there, some folks know, some folks don’t… :slight_smile: