Best sampler to pair up with the Syntakt - Digitakt or SP-404 MKII?

Elektron Gear
#1

I’d be interested in other people’s take on the ultimate sampler to complement the Syntakt. The Digitakt is an obvious contender (and thanks to a too-good-to-pass-up-on price, I already bought it), and offers the same, fun, creative and quick Elektron workflow as the Syntakt itself. But I also wonder if an SP-404 MKII wouldn’t potentially fill out more of the gaps of the Syntakt. The rationale being:

  • Stereo sampling - sample lush, wide synth chords and use in the songs
  • Virtually limitless sample capacity (vs ~30 sec sample limit on the DT)
  • 40+ Roland/Boss effects, many of really high quality (like Juno chorus, creative delays, flangers, distortions, etc)
  • Can be powered by batteries or a powerbank, less cable mess
  • With the Syntakt, there’s already one Elektron sequencer in the mix, is a second one really adding much or is it mostly just a lot of overlap?

But then again,

  • The p-lock workflow is just as fun on samples as they are on synth sounds
  • The SP-404 has no LFOs or even proper amp and filter envelopes, so the samples will play back more statically whereas the DT can approach samples more like a synthesizer, evolving over time as the song progresses
  • The trig probability combined with creative uses of the LFO could create really unique sound scapes
  • The same workflow as the Syntakt means less friction and fewer headaches
  • The DT just sounds great (maybe the SP-404 does too though, I’ve never used it live)
  • Overbridge makes recording the final track into the DAW a breeze
  • The DT and ST look so good together

Anyone else with a Syntakt who added a sampler? What was your pick and rationale?

The Syntakt ruined everything for me!
#2

(Moderating myself here: maybe this should merge with Which sampler to pair the Syntakt with?.)

#3

Well, I just paired up the 404 with the Syntakt… I sampled asynth off a YT video, and put it in the pattern, then midi’d the 404 to the syntakt run/stop.

So I could sequence on the Syntakt, and have a pattern of samples playing in time.

Plus I mentioned on the 404 thread, it effectively makes the 404 a multitrack recorder, because you can “wait” to rec, and resample into the 404 without recording the pattern, but then add the sample to the pattern later… if you run out of tracks…

1 Like
#4

How does the 404 let you stem out the recording live? Is there a way that’s similar to Overbridge? The use case here is: jam on the Syntakt and 404 together, record all ST tracks separately using Overbridge, and somehow record the 404 stuff to without it all being part of the same stereo track. Is there a way?

1 Like
#5

Totally.

When you build a pattern, you use individual samples. You can mute all but one sample and resample to a pad. Do that for all the “tracks” in the pattern.

Then you export the resampled pads to the SD card as individual samples. (or usb, but I haven’t done that yet… it needs the app to do it.)

Then you import the samples into multitracks in the DAW.

Plus, by doing it this way, you can add effects to individual parts of the pattern if you like.

Keep in mind though, you can also do this in the 404 via resampling, which is what the workflow is based upon.

After resampling all the individual “tracks” of f the pattern, you can make a new pattern with the resample tracks, so instead of individual hits, you can sequence them only once on bar one, and make the pattern however long the sample is. So if you resample the track with FX parameter changes, they get printed onto the new resample.

Plus you can pan them around if you want, or cycle a couple fx on them, individually or as a whole, or in parts.

#6

Just to be clear. You add one shots throughout a sequence to make a pattern. Then resample the pattern all the way through to a new pad with all but one sample muted. Once muted, the sample will still be sequenced, just also just muted.

Cycle through all the samples to creat the multiple tracks.

1 Like
#7

404, you get stereo sampling and lots of FX.

2 Likes
#8

I like the 404 as you can record the ST (DN for me) to the 404 and take it with you. Batteries and loaded with FX, resample and jam all day!

1 Like
#9

OK, but doesn’t that rule out recording a live jam? I should probably have been clearer here: I record my jams live and post them on YouTube. Before the final upload, I run all tracks through the DAW to do some light mixing. Here’s an example. The Syntakt makes this a breeze because all tracks, the stereo mains, the reverb+delay return, and the analog fx track are all separated for easy mixing. With the Digitakt, it would be the same thing and just another 8 tracks to mix.

On the SP-404, I’d have to meticulously recreate the jam instead through a series of recordings into the DAW, and any live tweaks and effects used during the live jam would have to be recreated in the DAW?

#10

DT is probably the way to go if this is what you are looking for. 404 can do this kind of from the pattern sequencer but like you said, meticulous.

1 Like
#11

I guess the photography analogy is to shoot in raw: I like the ability to record a live jam that is faithful to how I’m actually using the effects, while still giving me the ability to adjust the mix in the daw, just like raw gives you the ability to adjust the white balance in post. :blush:

I’d feel limited if I had only a stereo output to play with in the DAW from the 404. It would be nice if they’d do at least one USB audio track per bank, similar to how they support multi-track USB audio on the MC-101/MC-707 grooveboxes.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying all this to me. It definitely sounds like the Digitakt is the best choice for my use case of writing full tracks, jamming once and polishing it up in the DAW before publishing it. I’ll find workarounds for the mono sample limitation, that’s a clear edge that the 404 has for sure. I guess I have the MC-101 for that part.

1 Like
#12

DT is what I would go with, but it is also my favorite standalone sampler hands down. I would think ST + DT would be very manageable together… DT is very strong at tweaking its one shot samples to be alive feeling. If you are loading in samples off the computer you can go longer than the buffer of ~33sec… although I wouldn’t really see the point as loading in like a full backing track doesn’t really play to the strengths of the DT.

As far as mono goes on the DT you can always double up a track and tweak one to get some differences in filter or whatever and then have them panning or panned if you want that sort of stereo image… given you can pan all the tracks on ST and DT I kind of doubt you will ever be hurting for stereo image in a song even if you can’t load up a printed stereo sample in the DT.

1 Like
#13

Sadly I don’t think Syntakt can act as a USB host or charger, unless I’m misreading.

I have Syntakt and Digitakt, and Digitakt currently sequences my analog synths and plays one-shots and adds FX. But I’ve kept wondering about the best ways to play ST and DT together while keeping a manageable system, and I keep feeling stopped in my … uh … tracks. Like, it’d be nice to replace hats with samples or add “flavor” samples or vocal tracks or 4-bar segments sampled from external input, but it also becomes pretty complicated and hard to remember where things are pretty quickly it seems…

DT can sequence all of Digitone’s 4 tracks with MIDI, but hmmm… to do that with Syntakt, I suppose you could double up a few tracks using the lowest octave (C0-B0). There are just enough different possible solutions for working with the two at once that I find myself getting indecisive … Anyway, … thinking out loud and have to run, but an interesting set of questions, and I hope the DT works out well for you, it’s a wonderful machine!

1 Like
#14

I agree it can quickly get messy with 12+8 tracks. I have a project with the Syntakt and MC-101 playing together, all sequenced by the Syntakt, and there’s no doubt some cognitive overload keeping up with which Syntakt track number maps to which MC-101 track, and you can’t easily swap places for tracks either.

However, with a Syntakt and Digitakt, I wouldn’t need that track mapping because I’d simply let the two sequence themselves since both sequencers are great. In other words, I wouldn’t attempt to sequence the DT with the ST. I think that would make it easier to keep track, literally. :blush:

I have somewhat of a system for my 100% Syntakt songs. For example, I almost always use track 9 for kick, 10 for snare, 11 for bass, 12 for hi hat, and then the main melodic elements on tracks 5-8 and the main percussive elements on tracks 1-4. Not without exceptions, of course, but this makes it a much quicker guesswork to figure out where that snare is, it’s going to be either track 10 or 2 depending on whether I went with an analog or digital machine. It would still be more complicated with a DT in the mix, of course, but I guess that’s inevitable.

1 Like
#15

1010 music Blackbox:

  • can be used as a sound source for Syntakt’s midi tracks: one shot, multi-sampled, granular, loop slices, whatever
  • can be used as a looper for Syntakt
  • doubles as a nice eq/limiter for your jam session
1 Like
#16

…stereo sampling is overrated in many cases while two truu mono tracks can do stereo wonders…
and xact same workflow, one for syntesis, one for sampling is priceless…

1 Like
#17

Yeah, I guess stereo sampling isn’t necessarily a deal-breaker, but I find it useful when eg resampling a full drum loop for the purpose of further mangling and use as a background texture. Another example would be to sample a nice synth sound with a chorus effect on it. But to your point, you can definitely get around that limitation fairly easily.

#18

Interesting, I had not considered it. But I suspect it is similar to the SP-404 in that it only offers a stereo out, or can a live jam be recorded with separate tracks per sample/bank or similar? I might use samples for a wide range of things: an organic-sounding snare, some risers or cymbals, background texture. I really wouldn’t want all of that to end up in one single stereo track in the DAW when it’s time for the final mixing. The Digitakt makes this super easy with its 8 separate tracks.

#19

Octatrack?

ST plus OT makes a lot of sense… catch full loops/parts/one shots from the ST, OT brings the performance tools.
It could also take your MC101 in at the same time.

2 Likes
#20

Something to consider for sure. I’ve read so many things about the workflow and complexity of the OT so I didn’t even consider that, but maybe it’s not that bad. Will have to read up on what the DT has that the OT doesn’t, if anything.