Ultimately, its the lack of midi cc control and programs. Sure the TR-09 has all that, but so does Roland Cloud using the same tech. Its a fun machine thats for sure, and im sure it opens up when you hook it up to multi i/o, but for my setup, I can’t really take advantage of it the way it should be used. ;( Breaks my heart.
1 Like
If it wasnt pandemic time I’d probably keep it just to have something fun to jam with friends…but yeah. I did update the firmware and everything. The cowbell volume seems ridiculously low. 
1 Like
Yeah, that was a bit of the case here. I love the sound definitely, but for making music I’d either need a proper mixer with a ton of outboard effects, or sample/resample to achieve unique sounds. Definitely some buyers remorse. You live you learn 
Agree
I also think some things should be out of reach. If you find a way to reach that goal, makes it all the sweeter. It’s also nice to have something to aspire to.
Having access to everything makes things less special. Just my POV
(Adding: I also think they suck for NEVER crediting those they rip off)
4 Likes
I don’t know if I would say out of reach necessarily where vintage items are concerned. Goals for attaining something special though I would agree completely.
For something that is in short supply, not made anymore, and will only dwindle further or be snatched up by collectors though, I really don’t see an issue with.
There are scales and shades of grey for EVERYTHING. Even at Behringer prices, some people may still have to work hard to make that happen.
Everyone will fall somewhere across that spectrum.
Also, in the case of something like ARP 2500 based modules. Nobody except the niche-est DIYers were ever going to bring those back, and good luck finding one in good working order or at all. Being able to play with some of those modules is definitely a good thing, no matter who makes them. (even with a few of the limitations that they have)
There are some things out there that no matter HOW HARD YOU TRY to achieve as a goal, are never going to be attainable for any number of factors. Try getting a hold of an Emu Modular for another example. 
I like Korg better than Behringer as a company, but they’re basically doing the same thing. (and people praise them) Their business practices are definitely better overall, but they are still a fairly sizable corporation.
Legally, all of this stuff is pretty much up for grabs patent and circuit-wise. On the copyright side, I’m less clear as visual arts are protected differently and for longer.
2 Likes
take a U2 song [even if its older than 25 years], copy it, sell it…see how that goes
Well, if it’s a cover… Also, I think copyright is 75 years if memory serves.
I know with a lot of synths, the panel art, and circuit board layout art is protected while the actual circuit is not. Unless it was patented, but then only for the 25 years.
I’m not an IP lawyer. These are just things that I’ve read in conjunction with certain cloning projects.
I’m really not trying to labor that issue. More that I think having accessible options for lots of reasons is a good thing. There is clearly still a high-end market, and that is doing better than ever even with the democratization of the low-end.
I know I’d rather (and have and do) buy a Sequential than a Behringer for example. However, I’ve still filled in various gaps with some of their gear (like the TD-3).
People still by Adcom when Pioneer exists. Same with cars. Same with synths. Same with computers. Focal monitors when Alesis exists. Pretty much anything. This is all ok. It can’t be a bad thing that there is something for everyone, every taste, every level of quality one desires or can afford.
1 Like
I think if you can’t afford a CS-80…you get creative trying to come up with sounds with other gear. but if everyone has a CS-80…meh.
stifling innovation thru accessibility
but that’s not my main issue…the blatant lifting, down to the LOOK, and almost the name, of other people’s creations is my main issue.
1 Like
And the rimshot is very loud! I intend on picking up a second, used RD 8 and doing some of the mods.
1 Like
Innovation will not be stifled by accessibility. Anyone that is capable of innovating will do so. Either musically, or with design.
Nobody is buying a Behringer Pro-1 is someone who’s looking for something new and different.
Nobody buying a CS-80 clone is stopping another good musician from making good or amazing music.
You want innovation, support companies like Gotharman (as an example).
You want to support musical innovation, buy albums from people who innovate.
There can be 10,000 musicians all with CS-80s, but only 20 of them are going to innovate. It’s not up to the market, or synth buyers to make that happen. It’s up to the listeners to promote what’s good.
90% of the world though wants a rehashed pop tune with autotune.
5 Likes
I agree with the rimshot issue, and I also think there should be more release phase on the kick drum. The rest all sound incredibly good. If I get another one sometime (entirely possible) I will be modding the hell out of it.
That’s another thing. People should buy clones, and modify them. Leave the vintage in original condition.
1 Like
Pays better too!
1 Like
Af the risk of looking like a @J3RK fanboy I couldn’t agree more with you earlier comments. You just put it into words in a way I couldn’t 
2 Likes
you missed the point BIGLY
edit: but everyone has their own view points 
…I can dig it.
won’t change my viewpoint on Behr until they respect the people who paved the way for their current success.
1 Like
I have a short response to that.
Did ARP respect Moog, when they stole the Moog ladder design?
Did any other designers in the 70s respect each other when they all potted their VCA/OTA and Blackmer and Gilbert cells so nobody would know?
At this point ALL of that is public domain.
Sure, B could credit the visual aspect. Fine.
That doesn’t really matter at this point though largely.
What about all the software likenesses?!? Arturia?
At some point everyone needs to move on. You can’t defend one practice from one company, while condemning another for the same thing.
6 Likes
don’t use the software rips either. but at least they pay tribute to the people that made the originals.
like literal tribute or metaphorical?
I know that Serge Tcherepnin gets license fees for the eurorack modules people have been making with his designs. Does Arturia do that with Buchla?
Personally I don’t care about making historically accurate synths. I kind of dislike the mean-spiritedness with which the company acts from time to time. I would hate to buy a piece of their gear and then have them do something embarrassing like that awful “cork sniffer” video.
1 Like
I watched several Arturai vids where the demo-er [an Arturian] talks about the history of the original, and about their love for it etc etc. 
Behr just bite. “LOOK WHAT WE DID”
I skirted around Serge 
Because he HEAVILY cribbed Buchla (including the potted Blackmer cells).
But the tight communities around instruments like Serge and Buchla tend to self police the people that purely want to cash in. One could say that Behringer is trying to cash in, and sure, an argument can be made for that. Where people draw lines, and which communities one is a part of, kind of determine all of this. The SIZE of the communities plays a HUGE role though.
It is all relative. And in this era of patents expiring is honestly new ground. Until now, this situation couldn’t have occurred. It’s new ground.
The tight-knit Buchla or Serge crowd is a little different than the larger synth industry.
Basically it’s all the same, but each niche is viewed differently based on how many people it impacts. So… where does ONE draw a line?
2 Likes
Also, if I completely rip off someone, but then speak about the history, does that absolve me?
I’m not trying to stir shit. Honestly I’m not. I’m just calling into question, where we can draw lines and how valid are they?
2 Likes