April 17th now. Guess, it will still take quite a while …
One last comment. What’s the big deal about nostalgia? I can understand that some people value analog synthesis, though I find the many types of innovative software synthesis created in recent decades to be far more capable, versatile and interesting. But even if people value vintage analog synths, why vintage digital drum machines? I ask this because an old bit is no different than a new bit.
- Roger Linn
He seems like a really solid dude, hard to argue with his measured statement.
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Hoping mine still comes this week from Andertons - still quoting January 10th
an old bit is no different to a new bit
great sign out, read and thoughts
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Can’t wait to hear what Roland has to say when they find out that people have been cloning their bass synth!
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I’ve seen people on Reddit prior to this saying Roger Linn gave Uli his blessing or whatever which sounds like isn’t true.
Regardless, definitely agree that Behringer looking towards the past is the most boring part of their company and copying crusade. I personally have no interest in old sounds and those sounds can be easily replicated with a plethora of VSTs available.
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It’s quite a nerve to copy someone’s design, send them the copy and then hope for what? A blessing?
Roger’s response was eloquent and reasonable considering I think.
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For some perspective on his response to the LM Drum, read what Roger said about the $4500 Luma-1.
The Luma-1 is a much closer copy, using original code on the original CPU ( the Z-80 ) which Behringer couldn’t do and afford to sell it for less than a tenth the price, and to shrink the layout as much as they did. The Luma-1 is the original size.
Interesting to consider both of Roger Linn’s comments taken together.
To further discuss the Luma-1 you are welcome to post in that thread.
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This Roger Linn article is so sad. They never even asked him out of respect if they could clone it. What has the world become.
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Extremely interesting and thought provoking.
It does appear as if the Luma-1 designer did not ask Mr. Linn for his permission either.
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It’s hard to argue with Roger Linn, even if his statement could be construed as hypocritical. It’s his right as the creator to do whatever he wants with his IP.
I don’t feel any better about Silicon Valley CEOs than I do about Behringer, but B is the one offering me a product I can afford.
I’m also surprised to hear Roger Linn alienate the entire hip hop industry which he’s had such an unparalleled influence on with his prior products and work with Akai, saying an old bit is the same as a new bit is reductive in regard to the bigger picture when it comes to sampling, and I’m positive that he knows this as much as anyone.
Awesome innovative dude, can’t argue with anything he said, can’t argue with the creator and wouldn’t try, but I feel that numerically even if a bit is a bit, a sampler is not a collection of ones and zeroes, it’s the sum of it’s parts.
Is the LM drum a good sampler? Who knows, but in all that I didn’t hear him comment on how it sounds. Maybe that part is unimportant to the man who gave birth to its progenitor.
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I think there’s going to be an inherent difference in attitude to a small dev doing a labor of love project vs a large corporation that’s trying to cash in on nostalgia and lineage. Roger Linn also clearly doesn’t respect Behringers dealings with situations in the past as well.
But yeah, with as much effort as they put in to making this device I still can’t help but wonder why they didn’t try to make a unique drum machine instead? It’s not like this is a 1:1 replication of the original.
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Unique innovations require more R&D.
I’ve been a defender of Behringer in the past. I have the SY-1, the RD-9, the Pro-800, and a TC Electronic chorus pedal. I feel ok about those products since Roland have no intention of reintering the analog market, I didn’t want to spend lots of $$ on a syncussion clone before trying it out, and the Pro-600 is also a relic of the past. The TC pedal is a Juno chorus clone. Affordability is a big deal, and I’ve been burned by Erica Synths and Norand.
I just wonder what’s the issue with asking for permission.
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There is always more to the story than what we see.
I also feel if Linn condoned this, it would have very negative repercussions on his business objectives. I do feel he was respectful to the subject at hand, and his statement was well prepared, but it left no question about his position.
Him being a businessperson in music technology, working within that industry, I can imagine that if he supported the B product it would not go over well with investors, potential partners, and musicians in general.
I don’t think he made the statement with this in mind, but I’m sure that it has crossed his mind that working with the devil might get you pegged as one of his minions or something along those lines.
I suspect Behringer is also very shrewd with their accounting and probably have a good idea of how much of a market a product has and what they can expect to yield in profit or are prepared to lose, so they are likely at a break even cost on this because they know there is an existing market of whatever size.
Original products from behringer are going to be harder to predict the sales on, as well as more difficult to staff people and more importantly leadership who are qualified to supervise and meet deadlines while they do the R&D on those potential original products (and make sure that they are not just funding sinkholes).
Just my opinions on that though so who knows.
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Does he own any IP though? I checked and can see his Linnstrument patent which is active. But other than that, his drum machine IP is long expired.
US4305319A
This is why copyright trademark etc. is also important not just a design IP.
I am not disagreeing with him by the way. I felt his sadness in his article. To be honest I felt sad reading it…
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I meant it more in the sense of him giving his blessing rather than licensing his products, but you make a very salient point about the patent, trademark and copyright system.
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It’s always interesting to read that the original guys in this field, Roger, Dave Smith, Dave Rossum, Bob Moog… had little interest in looking backward and found much more excitement in New directions, especially digital.
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You picked a number of interesting names because to my knowledge, none of them are really musicians, they’re tech guys. It kinda doesn’t come as a surprise that they’re more interested in new tech than old tech when you think of it that way.
They aren’t interested in texture and vibe as much as structure and implementation. At the time, their products which now have a reputation for “texture and vibe” were as clean an example of structure and implementation as the industry could offer.
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I’m not a Behringer hater and have a bunch of their gear.
But the sequencers on everything I’ve used from them has been unspeakably awful. I shudder anytime I think about using the sequencer on the MS-1
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