Avoiding Chromatic Mode for leads/melodies/basslines on RYTM?

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#1

Hey guys,

I’ve been thinking about how to write single note phrases on the AR with samples, and in the correct key without using Chromatic Mode. Would something like this be worth the time investment, or is it too much of a hassle to work around the AR’s limitations when writing parts like this?

Wondering where to start…Two general thoughts I have:

  • Chromatic Mode: With the way I’m thinking of utilizing samples, I feel like using this makes the least sense…since I’m not interested in taking one note and stretching it out, and then having to ensure I’m avoiding pads that are out of key. Instead, I figured it would be easier to transfer a pre-made sound pool of a few synth patches from the DAW, each one containing a single note on the scale for a given key. Though, that does seem like a lot of work to put in ahead of time.

  • Re-Sampling: If I avoid Chromatic Mode, I’d then have to re-sample whatever patterns I have at that point down to one track, then load a single synth note separately onto 8 other pads to play them (all from the same patch and key). Is this possible?

In the end, I wonder if I’m being a bit too ambitious or thinking too much about using the AR to write parts other than drums/perc. I feel like I could easily go the boom/bap route and sample/chop in records, add drums and call it a day, but that’s not really my style.

As much as I’m wanting to find creative ways around it, maybe I need to accept the AR’s limitations and look to something like the AR4 that will do a better job for that. What do you all think?

#2

I’m probably missing something here but that all sounds like a lot of work to avoid using chromatic mode.
Is it just that you don’t want to re-pitch your samples?

1 Like
#3

Sample chains seem the obvious solution.

Or edit down a synth sample to something loopable, and set it to loop in the AR. Use the Amp envelope to control the dynamics.

Or play the part in from another device and trigger a long melodic sample.

You could sample multiple parts of the content you want, cut into chunks. Only use one pad to play them and sample-lock each time you want a different chunk.

Can you get close to the sound you want with the DVCO, and avoid the samples altogether?

1 Like
#4

…since rytm is the only elektron device i don’t have in use, i’m wondering if it’s also capable to handle single cycle waveforms…
if so…that would be easiest option to use chromatic mode for all it’s advantages without the uberobvious result of…ah, these licks and melodies are all that same sample just performed in chromatic mode…

1 Like
#5

What I have done with the Octatrack is build a short MIDI sequence (16 quarter notes - 4 bars) to run through the sounds I want. Then I sample that and slice into 16 slices and play with the keys. Alternately, I sample myself playing the sounds to a click track.

Not sure how this translates to AR. With a round number like 16 sounds, it is real easy to slice up.

1 Like
#6

I don’t think you can map samples across the note range on the AR. You might be able to fake it by mapping note number to sample start time. The start time control uses a scale 0-119, not 0-127, so you need a sample chain with a segment count that guves a whole number factor of 120 (2,3,4,5,6,8,10,12,20,30,40 and 60).

1 Like
#7

Basically, yes.

Re-pitching isn’t ideal for me, but I can live with it. The main thing is that I’d like to easily play in parts that are in key. I saw a guide for that somewhere but it seems like a huge turning-off to me. Having to constantly reference the key and intervals without any visual cues gives me the impression of this mode being sort of shoe-horned in.

Maybe I’m not looking at Chromatic Mode the right way?

#8

I’m going to make a snarky point. In your original post you pointed to the “AR’s limitations”… but it’s actually your own limitation, not the device’s. The chromatic mode gives you access to all the notes (over 4 octaves), but you want less of them.

I don’t mean to put you down. I find it quite hard playing in key on the AR too; I don’t do it often, and when I do, I have to concentrate, and I only get to play over 1 octave because I’m not fast enough to switch the up/down buttons and play the part I want. Usually, when I want melodic sequences, I play them in from a keyboard. I’m lucky that I have two or three I can use. However, I wonder if characterising the issue correctly may shift your thinking towards a more bespoke solution faster. Try a few different techniques out and see what works for you.

Do you have a MIDI keyboard you could use?

2 Likes
#9

I don’t know what would be the right or wrong way to look at it but I think we’re looking at it in different ways.
Essentially I’d echo what @Octagonist said in the post immediately preceding this one. To me it doesn’t feel shoehorned in at all. It’s only limitations I ever face are being limited to four octaves and switching between them on the fly with the arrows. Considering the form factor I think it’s fantastically implemented. 90% of the time I use it for all melodic/ tonal input and when needed I use a keyboard through midi.
It’s awkward at first but with practice you get used to it quickly. The ar is an instrument and like any instrument it takes a little bit of time and practice to learn how to play it.
I’m glad they didn’t cram in scale modes and all of that. To each their own (no judgment) but I find it so much easier to just have all of the notes available and be able to change scales freely while playing.

2 Likes
#10

I had Ableton Push for a while. That has scale modes. At first I loved exploring them: pick a scale with a weird name, pick a key, play! So good.

But so dull. The best thing about scales is changing them. The best best thing about changing them is ignoring them briefly for one or two notes at a musically significant moment. Scale modes, and more precisely the interfaces to them, are a major obstacle to interesting (to me) melody and harmony because it’s always at least two button presses and some menu squinting to change key+scale.

Push is fabulous for drums and a very clever device overall. But it’s not for me. The correct thing for me is to practice my scales and more of other peoples’ music. Which I’ll get around to eventually :wink:

2 Likes
#11

I’m an AR fanatic and I basically do everything within the machine, drums, samples, melodies, chords. It’s not the most logical machine to use as an all in one groovebox but it’s very much possible.

I’ll echo the point someone above made: get a midi keyboard to use with the AR. That way, you can play anything chromatically right away, and (assuming you know some music theory) it’ll be easy to stay within the key of the song. The pitching on samples works great for doing melodies, and otherwise single cycles can be turned into full on synth voices you can play.

The other workarounds you mentioned will probably kill your workflow…

2 Likes
#12

Alright this sounds close to possible solutions I was thinking about.

  1. Sample chains…how would I use them in this case to play parts?

  2. Sample-lock…is this basically a sound lock?

#13

I think you stumbled on the disconnect and really helped shift my thinking from this comment. Should have mentioned this before but I come from using a Push religiously. I used that for scales before I decided to learn scales/chords/theory on my midi keyboard.

Also, I probably could have worded things a bit better…“limitations” may have been a strong word, and me being new to DAWless music creation, I fully recognize the limitations are always going to learn more towards me over the hardware I’m using.

I do have a few midi keyboards I can use, but like Sleepyhead mentions below, I’m trying to challenge myself and see if I can do everything with just the AR.

I do appreciate your view on being free from scale restrictions, I honestly never even considered that concept (Push user) which to me, made my question worth asking for that alone!

1 Like
#14

With a bit of practice I find chromatic mode to be workable enough for simple bass lines and melodies. If you decide to go that route I made some scale sheets a while back for the Rytm. I found them helpful for getting more familiar with chromatic mode:

A midi keyboard is a good idea, I don’t think I’ve ever even hooked one up to the Rytm. Will have to get on that…

2 Likes
#15

Handy tip for recording melodic content (from a keyboard or Chromatic mode): if you make a Chain, then enter Live Record mode, you can record into all the patterns of the chain as they play through. This can help get past pattern length restrictions.

1 Like
#16

Yeah, you’re totally on point with this man.

As I mentioned above, I’m challenging myself to stay within the box and figure out how far I can push it, even in cases where it may not be the most efficient. I’ve been a software tester/analyst for many years and breaking/pushing things to their limit like this is what I like to do :wink:

1 Like
#17

This is 200% perfect man, thanks so much! I may hit you up for more info if I have any questions while using them, if that’s cool with you.

And yes, I should have made clear that I only want to write simple parts when using Chromatic Mode. Nothing crazy.

1 Like
#18

Can’t you just play the pads and listen to the notes that sound “correct” or good to you in relation to the ley you’re using? Surely you don’t want only notes that are in key, notes outside of it are useful as passing notes or to add some tension or whatever, and also to modulate between key signatures, so isn’t it best to have all available and just use your ears? Like, there are plenty of times that notes outside the key sound great! It’s all about how you prepare the notes you hear before that “wrong” note.

1 Like
#19

I see what you’re saying…this is something I haven’t considered too much if I’m being honest. I’ll have to look into this theory-wise. You’re right about arranging notes beforehand to be able to slip the out of key ones, good point!

#20

Yeah notes outside the key are called accidentals, or passing tones/notes, and you definitely want to have them available. Many many many songs use notes that are outside of the key, I’d say most but I don’t have the stats to back that up. Especially with very short notes outside the key that lead the ear to a note that is in key, that’s pretty essential. Think pitch bends too, the pitch bender is set to bend up or down a certain number of semitones, not only intervals that fall into the key, and you can use it very effectively as I’m sure you know!

Just use your ears! Very limiting and boring to have only the “right” notes available.