Don’t flame me for this post. Genuinely interested to learn more about it as I have zero knowledge atm. Just occurred to me that Ipad these days, and for a while now, is probably more powerful than something like the cpu of an octatrack/OP-1 etc? I see people making stuff around Arduino all the time, but as far as I know there aren’t any people making hardware built around an ipad/iPhone. Just wondering why? To my uneducated brain it seems like someone could make an OP-1 ‘app’ and build a pretty cheap controller/audio + midi interface piece of hardware specifically for it and hit a RRP which would be very tempting. IPhone screens are as big/bigger than OP-1 screen. Surprised no one has tried something like this? If it was under £300 for both the hardware + app I think they’d sell?
Also, as an aside… Would Love to see ableton make a cut down ios version that worked with Push…
As someone who has spent at least as much money on music apps as the cost of a couple of Elektron machines, I do not think it would be worthwhile.
The touchscreen is not that great for musical interaction IMHO, too imprecise, no feedback, not tactile, etc Sure there are some very good apps that try too get around this, but ultimately I always feel ‘disconnected’ from the interface or at least only partially connected.
Once you start adding physical controllers you hit another stumbling point, clutter and loss of portability, couple that with the ipad’s lower power and proprietory nature and you might just as well use a laptop.
Sure, the ipad has a more powerful cpu and much more memory than a OP1 or Octatrack, but this is not the whole story, it is not a dedicated device so some of the extra resources are used on housekeeping and being an ipad - wifi, bluetooth, updates, system tasks, sensing user input, etc. Even with all this happening, there is still probably quite enough power left to be a formidable Octatrack killer - in just the same way that the spirit level on the ipad should render a hardware spirit level obsolete - but it does not does it?
I’m not really talking about even using the touchscreen except as a regular screen. Like on OP-1/Organelle/OT etc. I’m saying it’s weird no one has made a killer app/hardware combo. Most people have an Ipad or iPhone around the house. Just seems like someone could make something and offer it at a great price if the cost of cpu/ram/memory was taken out of the equation?
They could keep it super simple and basically advance on the OP-1/Organelle route, or could even do something kind of modular, like bricks, so they could for example expand both apps and hardware or offer totally different ‘instrument’ apps that used the same hardware reconfigured (one day you use an octatrack kind of app with the hardware bricks set up accordingly, the next you have a small modular synth etc.)…
I know what you’re saying about clutter. But if if the hardware has midi/audio interface built in (this doesn’t need to be expensive…) then I’d happily use my phone + dedicated hardware controller as a permanent instrument like the OP-1 or organelle and save myself at least a couple hundred £?
Once you start adding physical controllers you hit another stumbling point, clutter and loss of portability, couple that with the ipad’s lower power and proprietory nature and you might just as well use a laptop.
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Korg has just released a new set of nano controllers that might solve this problem. The Nanokey Studio and Nanokontrol Studio are super portable and send Midi over bluetooth. They are perfect iPad company. I am sure we’ll see more controllers like that in the furure.
haven’t akai done something like that? a sort of MPC-dock thing with pads, where some MPC software was running on the iPad… did this ever come out / was it any good?
there’s also some DJ stuff from Native Instruments i reckon…?
guess a problem with this is that Apple can and will do whatever they want, i.e. change the form factor or connector… if you wanna make something which uses the lightning connector, you’ll have to be in Apple’s MFI (made-for-iOS) program which probably has horribly restrictive, and likely costly, licensing terms… this isn’t really necessary if all you wanna do is basically an app which comes with its own custom USB-MIDI controller (is bluetooth good enough for things…?)… but then it will never feel completely fully integrated… you’ll be limited to class-compliant USB audio/MIDI. again, might be good enough for many cases, but if you wanna do something which would require a custom USB driver, that’s a no go…
I guess what we’ll see more and more of, will be instruments which come with full embedded computers, like the Axoloti above, or the Organelle… these embedded boards running Linux or whatever are getting cheaper and more accessible by the minute… having an open source OS where you are in full control is a big plus… basically what you need is an OS which is optimized for real-time operations (i.e. the stuff which drives robots such as airplanes, cars, spacecraft, digital radios etc… aka things where it would be catastrophic if a facebook notification would make the whole machine hang for a second…). iOS has decent audio IO, but still it is not a realtime OS! will be only a matter of time until some easily-accessible and open-source realtime embedded OS gets popular.
imagine a eurorack thingie where half of the modules are proper computers, with hybrid analog / digital IO…
[quote=“” void""]
haven’t akai done something like that? a sort of MPC-dock thing with pads, where some MPC software was running on the iPad… did this ever come out / was it any good?
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yes, they did exaxtly that for their MPC app. it came out years ago and is rather cheap and flimsy. i am not even sure if they are still selling it. but it is pretty much what the OP is calling for.
why a cable should be a must is beyond me. with the ipads lack if I/O wireless control makes much more sense to me.
yes, they did exaxtly that for their MPC app. it came out years ago and is rather cheap and flimsy. i am not even sure if they are still selling it. but it is pretty much what the OP is calling for.
why a cable should be a must is beyond me. with the ipads lack if I/O wireless control makes much more sense to me.[/quote]
Cable would be for audio/midi streams… For sampling etc… The hardware would have audio interface built in. Otherwise you’d definitely hit the ‘clutter’ scenario if you need to also include an interface in the equation. I remember that mpc app/controller, it’s not really what I mean, that was basically just some pads for a lame app, I mean a full instrument…something good!
All makes sense, thanks for info. Yeah I guess Apple’s unforeseeable screwing everything up and their fees etc is a pretty valid reason for devs to stay away… Shame really tho…
As I recall, Akai did come out with something like that… But it came out at a bad time, in the midst of the transition from the old “30 pin iPod connector” to the Lightning cable. And it was built to the dimensions of the iPad 2. It was a neat idea - basically imagine a laptop where instead of a qwerty keyboard, you had MPC pads and a few other dedicated controls in the bottom half. But I think that by the time it actually hit the market, it was a bit late.
I think Akai had a few other things like this - keyboard controllers with a slot for an iPhone or iPad and some software to go along with it.
But speaking of “OP-1 but the screen is attached…” - my understanding of the next Teenage Engineering product, OP-Z, is that it’s kindof that. It’s a funky little standalone synthesizer with p-lock style sequencing and Bluetooth MIDI. And it can do video projects and project its interface to an iPad or a TV. I think that what you see on the iPad is just a representation of your sequences and patches, all of the control is still in the synth itself. It has no screen of its own, but can somehow project onto a nearby screen.
But for me right now, as I’m starting to get back into exploring Max, I’m intrigued by things like the Organelle or PatchBlocks (talk about little programmable modules that can interface together - check them out!)
I’ve found the iPad to be good for hosting sequencers. Drawing and manipulating sequences on the iPad to play external gear has been more rewarding than just about any of the synthesizers on it. It still feels like there’s a lag in many apps between touching an onscreen representation of a pad and hearing the sound come out - just enough to anger up my brain. I’ve tried using the “Elastic Drums” app as a “I want to do machinedrum-ish things but on the patio” tool but even on a fairly modern iPad it just doesn’t feel nearly as responsive as the knobs and buttons on the Machinedrum.
Oh yeah forgot about the forthcoming OP-Z - basically it sounds like the exact thing the OP was describing, it uses your tv/phone/tablet via openGL I believe.
[quote=“” darenager""]
Oh yeah forgot about the forthcoming OP-Z - basically it sounds like the exact thing the OP was describing, it uses your tv/phone/tablet via openGL I believe.
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if i understood correct it only uses your ipad or whatever device as an external screen. not even touch inetraction is possible. it’s basically just eye candy.
if i understood correct it only uses your ipad or whatever device as an external screen. not even touch inetraction is possible. it’s basically just eye candy.[/quote]
Personally I’d rather avoid touchscreen functions wherever possible in 90% of hardware instrument UI’s. Though it can be pretty inspired if an app/instrument is designed with touch in mind from the beginning. But I do like the idea of hardware that can take advantage of external screen real estate AND/OR cpu… So yeah, I guess the Z does kinda do what I was asking about to a certain extent but only in terms of using external screen, not cpu etc.
As I recall, Akai did come out with something like that… But it came out at a bad time, in the midst of the transition from the old “30 pin iPod connector” to the Lightning cable. And it was built to the dimensions of the iPad 2. It was a neat idea - basically imagine a laptop where instead of a qwerty keyboard, you had MPC pads and a few other dedicated controls in the bottom half. But I think that by the time it actually hit the market, it was a bit late.
I think Akai had a few other things like this - keyboard controllers with a slot for an iPhone or iPad and some software to go along with it.
But speaking of “OP-1 but the screen is attached…” - my understanding of the next Teenage Engineering product, OP-Z, is that it’s kindof that. It’s a funky little standalone synthesizer with p-lock style sequencing and Bluetooth MIDI. And it can do video projects and project its interface to an iPad or a TV. I think that what you see on the iPad is just a representation of your sequences and patches, all of the control is still in the synth itself. It has no screen of its own, but can somehow project onto a nearby screen.
But for me right now, as I’m starting to get back into exploring Max, I’m intrigued by things like the Organelle or PatchBlocks (talk about little programmable modules that can interface together - check them out!)
I’ve found the iPad to be good for hosting sequencers. Drawing and manipulating sequences on the iPad to play external gear has been more rewarding than just about any of the synthesizers on it. It still feels like there’s a lag in many apps between touching an onscreen representation of a pad and hearing the sound come out - just enough to anger up my brain. I’ve tried using the “Elastic Drums” app as a “I want to do machinedrum-ish things but on the patio” tool but even on a fairly modern iPad it just doesn’t feel nearly as responsive as the knobs and buttons on the Machinedrum.
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I probably should have said ‘op-1 but with screen AND BRAINS’ attached by cable. The only thing that would make any of this really attractive to me would be that in theory if the hardware is just a UI/controller then it should potentially be a lot cheaper… For people that already own ipad/iPhone at least.
The Teenage Engineering Z is prob slightly cheaper than it would have been with a screen, but you’re probably still paying a lot for what’s inside it? Akai were maybe on to something but like you say, it was possibly premature re ios maturity/hardware spec, and also their software was pretty lame/safe.
I’m just guessing with all this though. I don’t really know what I’m talking about. No one else seems to think it’s a worthwhile thing to do which is probably true given Apples tendency to screw up all music apps with OS revisions etc.
Also Arturia has done something along those lines. They have the spark controller and an ipad app for it. The controller doesn’t have an audio interface though.
