I’ve used PayPal goods and service to buy things many times, and trust it’s protection it offers to buyers.
However I’m now at a point where I need to sell some stuff and likely post it, as the market in my area is very small. The reason I’m posting is a friend got burned quite hard as a seller using goods and services:
-Sent item, buyer paid with goods and services.
-Postal service delivered to wrong address (essentially delivered to the next door neighbour by mistake)
-Buyer claimed a refund, PayPal accepted
-Friend lost out on item, and money paid
In the buyers position I can completely understand them claiming a refund (although it’s fairly likely they were able to recover the item from the neighbour and keep the refund)
So my question is it possible to protect against being scammed/honest mistakes as above when selling via PayPal goods and services and then posting?
This situation stopped me from selling remotely via PayPal but at this point it’d be handy to find a safe way to do so.
Do business with people you can rely on to be honest, not strangers. Engage in some kind of complicated notarized legally binding agreement. Do business on platforms that provide security for both buyer and seller. Do good business.
But in the instance of something like with your friend’s situation, not much that can be done. There’s no proof the package was received by the buyer, although as you said it’s likely they could get it, however neighbors can’t always be trusted either so maybe they didn’t. Paypal G&S is the safest way for both buyer and seller, but only if the buyer receives the item, and it’s the item that the seller promised to send.
I don’t sell things online anymore, at least not to random people, because the shadiness of others never ceases to amaze me.
Just to say though, the delivery is out of both of your hands, one thing you can do (which a buyer very well may not agree to) is to come to an agreement that they will pick up the package from the shipping center. Most shipping agents have an option to hold the package for pickup.
Even with a registered package that requires a signature, it’s not like they check i.d., they just want someone there to sign for it.
Yes this has been my feelings for sometime - but I’m forced to find a way. As have too much gear lying around doing nothing and it’s getting ridiculous now
Unfortunately I’m based in Spain, and the postal service is just not reliable. So I wouldn’t trust that a similar mistake, as happened to my friend, wouldn’t happen to me…
Perhaps insured postage could be a solution… Need to research this.
Insured is an option, but as cost increases buyers start to look elsewhere. I’d consider trying to ask people if they’re willing to pick up from the shipping agent. It’s inconvenient, but then there’s proof on both sides.
I’ve started using parcel lockers or getting stuff delivered directly to the Post Office (and encourage buyers to do the same). I’ve always had signature on delivery required and tracking.
Over the past fewyears, buying international (usually from the US) has become a bit of a crapshoot as to whether I’ll receive what I paid for. No way in hell am I sending expensive stuff across borders as a seller.
As much as I hate their fees, fleabay does offer some protection for sellers when things go wrong. I actually made more money when australia post lost a textbook I was selling because I got $$ from both ebay and auspost.
EBay… Hmm never sold on there for similar reasons but will research their seller protection. Had another friend suffer on there too so will enquire as to what exactly happened with that situation.
ebay is very well organized but very expensive to the seller, you have to do some math and determine how hard it is to sell your item locally at the same end price after the headache of listing, selling and shipping on ebay. You might find a local buyer at the same lower price that you would end up getting out of an ebay sale, sometimes might be totally worth your time with a rare item or something there’s no local market for at all. The fees on ebay are very high though, definitely worse than reverb. And ebay is more likely to take the side of the buyer in a dispute case, just like reverb. However, ebay does offer a certain amount of rigidity in their system that discourages fraud on both sides, and they do have some kind of arbitration in the event of dispute. Worth the research, but a headache.
Also, not to discourage you, but it’s hard to filter your clients on ebay and there are some “professional buyers” who have ways of trying to scam sellers by nitpicking item condition or delivery and asking for discounts after the sale, using the feedback system against you to hold the feedback hostage unless you make a concession to them, also it’s difficult for a new seller to sell high ticket items which means you might have to take some time buying on ebay first to build up some positive feedback transactions before even trying to take a stab at selling.
again, I’m not trying to discourage you, but it’s just good to know the reality of selling on that platform.
I probably sold a hundred items on different websites. Sold inside and outside EU, even to Australia.
All my parcels went tracked, insured to real value and proof of delivery.
Not a single got lost or delivered to the wrong adress. Insurance cost has always been marginal compared to shipping cost.
For exemple sending a maschine + from France to belgium costs 22 euros with tracking, proof of delivery and automatic minimal insurance of 50 euros. Put a 800 euro insurance and it will cost 26 euros.
What costs much is weight*distance, insurance not so much.
At least here, in France, it’s like that.
Not going cheap on shipping and correct, accurate description of what you sell should make you safe from paypal disputes…
It totally makes sense that postage insurance essentially removes the risk as if it goes missing in transit and buyer claims refund - you are insured for full value.
Just trying to think of anyway a scammer could somehow mess this up for me however…
Some items exceed the value threshold the shipping agent is willing to insure against, like if you sold a 3,000 value synth and they will only provide 1,000 insurance there’s still a gap in the coverage. Also, who does the burden of making a claim fall upon? Generally it’s going to be you, and a claim can take a long time to pay out. It’s not so much an impossible thing to do, but again, one must assess the benefit and the cost. Also, some items or shipping agents add a lot of extra cost for the insurance, especially premium insurance. It all comes back to your bottom line, how much of the sale price you end up with and how much you need to get rid of the item.
Again, not to be discouraging, but I ran into a lot of these things in the past. That’s part of why I don’t sell things online anymore. I might sell someone here on elektronauts a guitar pedal or something, but as a rule I stay out of the “selling to unknown people” online sales thing.
I understand your situation though, maybe try an ad here on elektronauts first and see if anyone is local enough to be able to meet up at a middle location in person so as to avoid shipping.
Verify with the specific shipping agent their insurance rate and the max insurance available, as long as you are armed with facts and have a plan I think it will work out ok. Good luck, hope it all works out regardless.
Honestly, just sell on Reverb and use their insurance. I’ve done around 200-300 transactions and have had to use insurance 3 times. Twice on the seller side. Once for lost package, and once for damage. Once on the buyer side for damage. Every time they come through with a full refund to where no party loses out. As a seller I keep the funds the buyer paid, and the buyer gets a refund and vice versa. It costs usually a few dollars per, but it has been worth it over the years.
What the OP described is pretty messed up, but I believe you could file a claim with the mail courier at that point. Which is a headache in itself, which is another reason I just use the Reverb insurance. As much as I don’t like paying fees in general, it’s still better than eBay.
As everyone has said, insurance is essential here. If they won’t pay for it, don’t ship to them or suck up the cost yourself.
I bought something a few years ago which came badly packaged and broken. Was a bit of a nightmare as really it was the sellers fault for packaging it so badly but they wouldn’t accept that and it was a private sale so I had no recourse, but the insurance paid out.
Since then I would never ship uninsured unless it was so low value that I don’t care. I also would avoid buying private except in special circumstances (rare item, crazy price, they are local so I can pick it up in person etc) as eBay etc. just give you so much more peace of mind as a buyer. Though I guess maybe PayPal G&S gives the same protection, unsure!
