Ableton or Bitwig?

When I see this sentence, I can help but recommend some hardware solution such as MIO4 USB MIDI hub.
It makes everything so easy!
Very well worth the 100 bucks, once for all.

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Curious, how does it solve my eventual midi sync issues? And how?
Or what problem does it solve? I’ve Always managed to fix it, it’s just between hardware like the Md and similar and the computer. But usually i fix it with One or the other solution. Expert sleepers has abfew for example…

I recently switched from ableton to Bitwig. M4L was a very cool idea, but too unstable for me with quite a lot of crash. I am not a huge fan of the Grid in Btg. I find it quite limited but it will for sure evolve with the time. It’s still a good way to build bespoke synths very quickly. I like to complete it with some PureData patches compiled as VST with Camomile.
Otherwise I love the modularity of the interface and of course all the modulations. The sampler is also very good. I even plan to sell my Octatrack and go with a Microsoft Surface Pro with Bitwig.

I use Bitwig now and for my need it is the best DAW i ever tried.
Efficient, works well with Overbridge, modular, stable and it works on Linux.

Right now im using Mac OSX but i have the intention to change since Apple is making my life hard with OS updates that break stuff, planned obsolescence, crazy expensive hardware, the impossibility of going back to earlier OS version that support my Nord Modular and other 32 bits apps etc.

Always had problem with stability with Ableton before (version 7) but maybe thats just me .

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It you have a few pieces of hardware, such a USB MIDI hub makes it possible to have all directly available on your computer, with extremely low latency.
A thing worth considering.
Just saying cause it simplified my workflow a lot.

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If you have an Overbridge device, I found you can use that as a stable clock source: Overbridge makes a great MIDI clock source, if you have a way to merge the clock signal generated from the OB box with everything else. Otherwise yeah, some third party solution driven by audio makes sense. MIDI itself just isn’t stable enough for syncing drum machines etc. tightly in my experience

@LyingDalai i´ve been running the computer as slave to the hardware especially the MachienDrum which is well known for it´s bad sync between computer, that has worked best actually, besides using something converting audio to clock signals.
I think i will get a device using audio, thats absolutely the most tight you can get, but thanks for the tip. :slight_smile:
I have a very simple midi interface which i use just for fun, Roland UM-One. USB and midi in + out in the other end. Works well enough and it was cheap. But normally USB is fast but can be unstable sometimes.
I have has a super-tight setup OTB but now all i need a audio to midi converter, and actually i think i already have built something like that for my eurorack before and silent way.

@tdmusic i dont use overbridge, really, dont like it and wont use it. Will get smething like thisd, it´s cheap and great: https://schneidersladen.de/en/expert-sleepers-usamo

Whatever suits you :slight_smile:
Btw, with TM-1 you can get tighter midi connection (makes the MIDI connection 10x faster).

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I still found the clock sync was no good with computer as the master though

The MD didn’t fair so well on innerclocks litmus test. https://www.innerclocksystems.com/litmus

It confirms my memory of the 10 years or so I had an MD

Yeah, but it works well if you use it as master clock, used the internal seq or synced it with a better tech like audio convert to clock.
It’s an amazing machine with no equals; sure it got it’s flaws but which one doesnt?

I’ve had mine 6 years now, and syncing it with a DAW was the manhood test. Then i grew out of the computer and OTB it has worked fantastic! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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If Bitwig was FOSS, it’d be great… but it’s not.

What´s FOSS?

Free and Open Source Software, i.e. software where you have free access to the source code and distributed under a permissive licence such as GPL or MIT, so others are free to make use of your code for whatever purpose they like. Usually also distributed free of charge although you do get some products which you pay for, but you can still access the source for free and compile it yourself if you want (I think these still count as FOSS? Not an expert though). The most famous example probably being Linux.

It’s quite a difficult model to make a business success of, so it’s no surprise Bitwig is not open source.

As an aside, the internal engine of Tracktion is distributed under the GPL: https://github.com/Tracktion/tracktion_engine (but not the UI), I’m sure that could be the basis for a great FOSS DAW (but it’s still a huge amount of work to build the UI)

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I never really liked the GUI of Ableton, because I´m a logic fan boy :smiley: Big minus for Ableton in my eyes is, you don´t have a mixer view where you can see all insert plugins on all channels. Logic looks like a mixing desk.

And this is possible in Bitwig too! On top you have all the modulators to modulate modulators or other stuff :slight_smile:

I’ve used the Expert Sleepers USAMO box for syncing a Machinedrum with Bitwig in the past. Took a little bit of setting up but worked a treat.

Having had time away from Ableton while I worked on a project largely in Reason… I found that going back to Ableton quite underwhelming. All those features I’d told myself I couldn’t do without, I no longer found I needed them and I decided I really didn’t like the UI anymore.

The only thing I struggle with in Bitwig is editing, stretching and crossfading loops. In Ableton that stuff just works…

it is already great.
in real world, all software can’t be free and open source. some companies make living from making proprietary software, and that’s fine.
so, those products that have native Linux versions are already good, and if they are reasonably priced — that’s awesome.

i really disliked Bitwig pricing for a long time, but 16-track version for €99 is absolutely reasonable for the features it offers.

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Don’t get me wrong, it’s not a bad product. I just wish there was a better FOSS alternative to Audacity. Bitwig would be a great starting point for such an effort, etc.

I realize the legal/financial implications, though.

I think Audacity is what you get when the FOSS community develops a DAW.

There are some notable really notable examples of software for creative enterprises that is FOSS and full-featured enough to be a direct competitor to bigger, proprietary competitors (Krita and GIMP come to mind), but the reality is that 9 times out of 10, the FOSS solution will look more like Audacity than it will look like Krita. It takes a ton of talent, dedication, and consistency of vision to deliver a high quality piece of software that has a huge depth of features and is still usable in terms of UI, UX patterns/consistency, etc. If you look around the FOSS world you’ll see a lot of software that either: 1) has tons of features but is practically unusable (no interface, shitty interface, etc.); or 2) has relatively few features, but is free, accessible and very easy to use (like audacity).

Doing both is like hitting the FOSS jackpot, and it unfortunately doesn’t happen often :frowning:
It’s an insanely hard problem - and that’s why software teams get paid well, and that’s why DAWs cost so much money :upside_down_face:

I definitely wish there was a good FOSS DAW out there as well, but I’m not holding my breath.

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As far as the original question goes, I can’t speak to Ableton from the perspective of a long-time user as Bitwig was my final decision when picking a DAW. But I did spend a lot of time demoing major options (Ableton, FL, Reaper, S1, Logic) and ultimately arrived at Bitwig for a few reasons:

  1. Sound design/ease of modulation/the grid - Bitwig was the only DAW that felt like I didn’t need a small army of VSTs to do deep sound design of my own custom synths. To this day, most of my plugin purchases are sampled instruments like Felt’s Lekko piano, etc., where I just don’t have the patience to multisample an upright as meticulously as they do :slight_smile:
  2. Linux support
  3. Development velocity feels fast – maybe this is subjective, but I get the feeling that Ableton and many of the older competitors are starting to struggle to introduce huge new features, since their codebases are getting more mature and it’s harder to steer a giant ship like that.
  4. Launchpad controller support from DrivenByMoss - I seriously considered getting Ableton and Push 2, but a very similar experience is possible with a Launchpad and Bitwig using Moss’ scripts, and overall price is significantly lower.