I’m curious about Max4Live world. Do I understand correctly, that vanilla Max can load the M4L patches with just not working inputs & outputs, because they are Live-specific? Or it does not worth it and better to stick to full Live license? (Not mentioning new Live objects that were introduced recently)
there is vanilla Max? Never heard of it in Ableton context. There is MaxMSP and its integration into Ableton named Max for Live (mfl or M4L). In general inputs and outputs always work, there is no code that intercepts the workload corrsponding to versions regarding in&out, means once the internal scheduler works and registered a class with a name it does not matter anymore.
But you can have patches that rely on object building blocks that explicit are only available in some Max version (lets say starting version 7), if those needed object registered name does not exist the “Patcher” can’t find it and would simply withdraw “cables” from and to such object of that patch and still loads the patch. So objects register internally by name, which also means other objects with the same name and same input/outputs scheme would simply overload previous registered names to classes (objects) - which means there is a loading hirarchy in which folders are gone thru to find the runtime. The creator of a patch is responsible to mark the dependency to specific max versions in the max-patch.
Usually the word “vanilla” means something uses only objects and functions that come with a plain basic install. That means as soon you have M4L installed or linked (see Ableton Settings) the live.* objects are available, which is why M4L patches work. As far i remember all live.* object runtimes (mxe/mxo files) come with Ableton.
but the licensing scheme of company Ableton is indeed, i’d say even foolish - because you can’t load higher license created files entirely. So the lowest license model is rather not just limited but limiting. Worse, its still the way if you buy into Push (hardware not cheap) you get a basic version that dos not even allow you to apply the full capability of the device you bought - thats why i say foolish.
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Yeah, I meant MaxMSP of course. Just trying to understand relationship between M4L vs M. Would pairing MaxMSP with other DAW make sense if I’m only interested in rich M4L library (and MaxMSP own library of course) and don’t need full Live capabilities (or Push, etc)…
internally the objects can figure out if they run inside plain Max environment or also within Live (properly compatible classes use a object_method ‘isInLive’ which returns yes or no to answer that. In theory an object could adapt, means “live objects” are by design not excluded but in fact not of much use outside of Max for Live). Plain Max objects of course work if the Max Environment can run, for that in example Max has its own Midi Ports. And the SDK to develop objects does explicit support development for plain Max. It works very similar to PureData not by accident, as it is of same origin ( Miller Puckette). That goes so far as that code that works (compiled) for PureData can easely adapt to work in Max too and wise versa.
So to round it up, M4L is Max running inside Live with for Live explicit provided UI objects and a couple more fancy stuff, like the Live API those objects can utilise. Plain Max also provides all typical needed UI objects, like sliders, number fields, etc. Code wise (if you are able to read and understand C header files) means everything of Max SDK declared in ext_params.h is not of use in plain Max.
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Max can run M4L devices since version 8 using the amxd~ object, which mimics a Live environment for the live.* objects inside the M4L device patch. Obviously some parts of the Live Object Model will not make sense inside a purely Max only environment (getting a specific track, etc.), but it’s useful to have nonetheless, and means some of the cool M4L-only synths and audio effects can be run without having to be tied in to Live (or even own a copy).
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I was just thinking that
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Yeah. Crazy it took that long, but now it sounds great IMHO. I remember reading in the early days that any change you made to the sample, including level or on changes would start to degrade the sample
I’ve been a Live user since v4 I think it was. I was even one of the early adopters of using Live live, when I was working under the moniker UpYou. We took our show on the road and even ended up doing a small tour (a long weekend) in Germany.
Fun times….But was ultimately cut short as my musical partner kept getting told by a mate of his that blending loops, fx and jamming an arrangement flexibly by me, and my musical partner doing live vocals and live keys wasn’t playing “live”! Fast forward 20 years, and everyone is now doing it this way!
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I started with 1.5. I had a G3 iBook and ran Reason but wanted something that ran on OSX and not 9.x. I still have the manuals and box sleeves for 1.5, 2, 3 and 4 around somewhere.
I did actually use it Live and was DJing with it for a while. Fast forwarding and I think Live lost some of its original mojo - I can’t put my finger on it but it’s still an awesome tool. I think some of it is down to it’s original purpose morphing into something else completely and the thing that worked when simplicity was a key don’t quite gel.
I use Logic these days and dabble in Bitwig but the influence of Live a quarter of a decade ago is unreal.
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Sorry to hear this. What you described sounds like the very definition of a live electronic act. Even beyond that with live vocals and keys.
Are you still doing live shows?
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Not anymore. We stopped working together after our album came out, due to various factors and then life got in the way of serious music projects for around 10 years.
I’m back now though writing quite a bit, but I’m more of an electronic experimenter as much as I would call musician. But I have been thinking about releasing my “Amusing Generative nonsense” album and taking that out to do some live shows. But that will just me on my own, under my Bill Payer monicker.
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can you believe it - on my Desk is still my first Powerbook G4, in working condition with running Ableton 4 and of course Reason 3. And even more unbelieveable to me, my Octatrack mk1 fresh out of the box back in the days, is whopping 10 years younger.
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Was it the colored clam shell or the rectangular white one? You just unlocked a memory for me. I had totally forgotten that I used a rectangular white iBook in the early 2000’s. I don’t think I had it long before upgrading to one of the Mac towers plus monitor. G4 maybe? I remember a blue plastic color.
Very funny thinking about all those candy colored plastic Macs before all the grey sleek metal machines came out.
The white one - when they started to get closer to PowerBooks.
I really wanted a titanium g4 though……
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I was being sarcastic, there was never any issue with the sound quality in Live.
I always install Ableton onto a HDD to give it a bit of that analog warmth 
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I think there was at the beginning, but only with the time stretching. I was pretty shocked by how punchy my MPC sounded compared to Ableton then. Now, I think Ableton and most new gadgets sound great in comparison to those days
5400rpm or 7200rpm? I find 5400rpm gives more depth and the bass is tighter, but 7200rpm has a lot of spaciousness and clarity in the highs.
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5400rpm for drums, 7200rpm for everything else 
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You guys are so old school. Analog Bananalog. The kids these days yearn for that mp3 compression sound from the early 2000’s!
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