A4 strengths ? : Getting outside the 'typical' dull sound?

Hey all,

Just got an A4 recently and the more I play with it the less enthusiastic I become as I find its sound to be just plain dull and muddy. I’m going through the presets thinking they all have that common boring mid range dullyness about them. Say compared to a DSI Tetra which sounds are bright and fat and refreshing the A4 sounds just plain uninspiring to me.

Anyone else share the same feeling?
FP

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I’ve been back and fourth about it since I got one a couple years ago.
At first it sounded surprisingly better than I expected.
Over time I struggled getting certain sounds I was after, definitely not coming close to DSI or Moog.

I was really close to letting it go, then the OS update came out.
It’s been enough to keep me hanging on.

Also after listening to what a few others are able to coax out of it, I figured I need to try harder.
The sweet spots in the filter is elusive from sound to sound, nevertheless when you find it, it can sound pretty great.

I still come back to not being able to get the sounds I want fast.
Not nearly as fast as when I had a Tempest or a Moog.
I gave up on trying to get remotely close to that Moog growl, as or that DSI grit.
Just trying to let that go and find out what the A4 is good at.

I agree though, most of the time I struggle with it seeming dull to me.

you’re not the only one. it’s the reason i sold mine.

For me, the A4 worked best when in poly playing smooth strings/pads, or in unison playing an evil riff.

I have other synths I prefer using for the main riff now like my Mother 32 sequencing an analog comb filtered, phase modulated complex oscillator routed back into the Mother 32’s signal chain, and mixed with its square filter. So I ended up only using my A4 for chords. I think it sounds best in the mix doing this type of thing. I ended up selling mine though.

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Now I need to know, what do you use for an analog comb filter? I was using the Analogue Systems RS-120, but it crapped out on me and never sounded that great anyway.

I have the RS-120 as well, but think it sounds fantastic. Maybe I’ll post an example of the sounds I’ve been getting with mine.

Never been a complaint of mine that it is dull sounding. Lots of parameters to make it sing.

well there’s your problem…

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I’m mainly interested in opinions on the overall character of the synth which I find muffled in many ways and this is a characteristic that I find is present in all presets, even mine. Good on you if you don’t have that feeling! Wish I had you ears!

All of the synth work of this album by Robert T was done on the A4.

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Have you used the peaking filter at all?

Here are various tracks I’ve made with the A4 that use the peaking filter.





https://clyp.it/id3iknkn

All synth lines in each track are A4.

The dual filter topology of the A4 makes it incredibly flexible. To be able to carve frequencies with the multi-mode filter and still have a LPF ladder, for each voice, makes for a lot of versatility.
Sadly, far too few presets utilize the peaking filter.
It is this feature that, in my opinion, gives the A4 an edge over many other synths. It is rare that an analog synth can behave in so many different ways as a jack of all trades.

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@AdamJay
These tracks are nice, but they sound like they are within the realm the A4 works best in.
Nice kicks, snares, dirty pads, stabs, and high end beeps etc.
Not that this is a bad thing, but I dont hear anything that stands out and makes me think, “oh wow, I didn’t know the A4 could go there.”

I agree the peaking filter is nice, and the A4 is versatile to a point, but when it comes to just basic/classic sounds that are “fat”, it’s barely capable.

I told myself I wouldn’t sell it until I finished this chunk of music.
It’s probably going after that.

No matter how hard I try, it wont get close to anything like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoSy0J1K03g

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Great work everyone. Some questions:

  1. Has anyone compared the A4’s headphone out to its line outs? Would this make any difference?
  2. Does anyone think that what people are hearing that they don’t like is the DCOs? A pure analog VCO is probably a spikier more random waveform. Could your brain perceive a digitally-controlled oscillator as “dull” because it’s a more predictable waveform and you simply get used to hearing it?
  3. I will say that sometimes the A4 seems quiet even when it’s loud, if that makes any sense. Is what people are hearing simply the character of the amp, not the tone or timbre of oscillator or filters? I sometimes wonder about running my A4 through a preamp.
  4. I also think the A4’s effects really gunk up its sound, the presets lay on the chorus and delay too thick, and I’m just not a huge fan of the reverb.

I had the same feeling when i got mine. Although it’s not a Moog or DSI, it has it’s own character. You just need to spend time with it. The sweet spot isn’t as wide as the Moog or DSI but it’s very versatile.

Moog is like a great steak restaurant where you get very few menu choices but everything taste great. A4 is like a great buffet where you many more choices even though not everything is great but very good.

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I’m wondering if there is some kind of EQ or compression applied? it’s as if the sounds were rounded off or smoothed out, these tracks above are nice but again there is nothing cutting through the mix, it’s flat, lacking headroom imo, that’s my main grip with this synth’s sound.

I’ll probably give it my best shot for another 2 weeks but I’m just tempted to replace it with a Tetra + mother 32 and sequence them with the OT!

I didn’t say they were out of this world, just not indicative of the “plain dull, muddy boring midrange” that gets lobbed at the A4.

[Mod Edit] Topic title rephrased to encourage a positive user/contribution rather than to serve as a vehicle for reaffirming concerns. [Note: OP subsequently changed it back!]

The concerns are valid, your ears are the ones that matter. Let’s look for possible solutions rather than confirm fears.

If I attach a neck to a block of wood and throw strings on it, I don’t expect it’ll sound like a telecaster, even with single coil pickups. Let’s not set about this without a bit of perspective (as some have done above) … the A4 is very different under the hood to other synths … .for starters the oscillators are all 'pulse’width variable

That’s hugely unusual, I often wonder if the sparkle and life you hear from a VCO is electrically engineered out by adopting that method on a DCO

I think the filter of an instrument is capable of shaping the perception of the sound the most, but that open deep bottom of a LPF specialist makes me think that the oscillator is king in that respect

fwiw - I’ve a lifelong crush on the whole prophet 5 legacy, a seminal synth of my early listening adventures - I bought a p08 and I have owned it far far longer than the A4, yet I have used it far far far less - it lays out a big spread on the speakers that nothing else does, though the Waldorf pulse+ is huge on bass too - the point is, I actually find the architecture/filter/mod range all a bit safe and uninspiring - I don’t want a synth to sound like another one, I want to find new sounds, I guess certain interfaces and certain typical sounds talk differently to different owners and it’s a matter of finding what’s right for you … but judging a synth on the presets is folly when it’s as deep as the A4 … it’s hard to deny it has a vanilla characteristic ‘range’, but it has so many off-piste sounds and is incredibly versatile … you can’t look at it without factoring in the sequencer

anyway, I can see this thread had the potential to become one of those polarising threads, let’s look for ways forward in helping OP find their solution; that might not mean the A4 is for them, it’s a synth that benefits from exploring, with so many variables the sweet spots are all over the place

I guess selfishly, i’d rather see a stimulating debate(and forum) full of spectrograms and techie talk and counter theories than uninspired complaining, it’s impossible that we’ll all agree btw … go to it :wink:

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I’m not changing DULL back to MID again in topic, have it your way

I did not use dull, it’s an overly pejorative word and also ambiguous** and also likely to lead to heated polarising responses

If you really want a constructive discussion, open the door, don’t close it, think it through ?!

** The A4 architecture is the least dull that I can think of

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Got my AK a few months ago. Still on the fence. It sounds ‘ok’. The presets definitely suck to my ears. Very polite sounding. I only listened to about 20 before I gave up. I’ve managed to get some keeper sounds out of it but it’s not as much fun/immediate to program as other hardware I own, or even some ios synths. I have a huge hang-up with the rotary response curve on things like filter cutoff. I hate the extremes of the ‘fine tune’ or ‘push knob and steppy’ responses. Just feels alien/detached when dialling in sounds compared to something like my ms20 or op-1. God knows why there isn’t an option for knobs to behave ‘normally’. For me it makes programming feel a chore sometimes. But there ARE sweet spots in the filters per patch and little tricks to liven things up. I’ll probably sell mine at some point and put the money towards a Dom1 or Mother 32 + minilogue/something poly… I need to find some time to try and really refine some patches and see if I can get fully happy with them. Maybe it is a keeper but just takes a lonnnnnnng time to gel with it…

There has never been that special magic between me and my A4. I feel our relationship is pragmatic and trouble free, but there is little love. Sometimes I forget it is even there. I have been known to call the A4 soulless and dull, which I know isn’t really fair. Also, the A4 is jealous of my ex (the Alesis Micron) and claim I think too much about all the great times we had together. Which is true, I guess. I don’t really think there is anything wrong with the A4, we were just not the great match I had hoped we would be.

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IMHO many of those complaints about the A4 may be caused by expectations, which have not been fulfilled.

Complaint 1: Presets are not as good as I expected them to be … agreed, some are nice, most are not what I personally need.

But do we buy expensive hardware gear to rely on presets? Most great plug-in synths come with presets in the hundreds and cost 1/10 of the A4/AK.

Complaint 2: Doesn’t sound like a Moog, a DSI, or another of the big analog boys, … agreed too …

Please don’t get me wrong. I fully understand the expectation to get the one or other classical sound from a synth. But why get this machine, if Elektron states that they did something new in electronic design and not a copy of the fabulous past? The A4/AK is not supposed to sound like the others.

Just to sum up some of the reasons, why I love my AK …

  • four waveforms per oscillator (usually three)
  • one waveform is unusual, the “Transistor Pulse”
  • all waveforms allow for PWM
  • two sub-oscillators per voice with different settings (unusual)
  • quite a lot options for crossmodulation between the oscillators and a feedback loop
  • two filters, completely independent to be used and modulated
  • many modulation capabilities
  • chaining two synth voices by routing voice 1 in the input of osc1 of voice 2

I stop here … compared to many other high end synths the list stands out. It’s much more than we get from a Moog Voyager or a DSI Prophet 6, just to name two …

I agree with many people saying switch on a Moog and you instantly are rewarded with this unique Moog-sound. Absolutely. But the A4/AK is so versatile that it takes some time to learn and create our personal signature sounds. A Moog sounds like a Moog almost every time we use it. That is great, but I have got some pretty unique sounds of the AK, which would be nearly impossible with a Moog or DSI instrument.

At the end it’s a question about longing for sounds of classic synths or for new sonic options. Both are equally justified and of personal preference only.

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