apart from the AK’s hardware advantages …
i seem to like the A4 sound better.
maybe my ears trick me, but somehow it seems to sound more “funky”
in all the youtube videos, while the AK seems to sound more HiFi = cleaner
i know the “deep bass” discussion and this comparison:
but even here the A4 to me sounds more raw and funky
am i wrong?
or is this really a general difference?
I can’t speak to the difference in sound but having individual outs on the AK is really nice. Although I think you lose the effects. If space and price are less of an issue, then the integrated keys and joystick are pretty nice too if you play. Shift that sucker into poly mode and you’ve got a serious board on your hands. All that said, I have the A4, can’t play piano and mostly use it for a drum machine. Having individual outs would still be really nice. OB handles this to some extent.
thanks, i know, all this speaks for the AK,
which is why i started this thread to be honest.
the output thing is really a tough one,
keys and joystick too of course
but everytime i hear a A4 demo and then a AK demo
my ears make me believe the A4 sounds more alive
really helpful would more comparison files be,
same patches on both machines
if you know more links please let me know
thanks!
TBH I would not rely on You-Tube or soundcloud files for a A4 sound vs AK sound comparison. You never can tell, what was done at and with the recording.
AFAIK there is a difference. SOS magazine says, that the AK is boosted for bass:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may14/articles/elektron-analog-keys.htm
take it from Elektron - besides a tiny bit of finesse tweaking at the bottom end there is, besides that, absolutely no difference in sound - and compared to that every other difference is a major deal by comparison
.
but joystick or more flexible and traditional control input is easy to fake (lemur / arduino / etc) or just line up pitch / mod / breath as three separate controls on a keyboard with aftertouch (i.e. more control and latching)
.
individual outs is not beyond the scope of a mod - the A4 has the solder points for those (nobody’s tried this yet though, so who knows) and is either a non issue with an overbridge workaround or is a deal breaker
.
i’ve an A4 and have spent 10 mins on a Keys - i think the added menu items and such are workflow boosters and this should not be underestimated - multi map is a bit more convoluted with A4 too - but for me it comes down to size every time - it’s just so much more fun to sit with an A4 and it sits well within the trinity
.
if it was to be your workhorse synth and space wasn’t an issue and you wanted needed keys it’s a no-brainer for the AK - the price gap can be fairly tasty, especially second hand
@ SoundRider
sorry, but as i wrote in the o-post,
i know about the deep bass thing,
but that’s not what i am asking about
what i am asking is, if snowcrash here
http://test.http://www.elektronauts.com/t/a4-bass-vs-ak-bass/12945
is right, saying:
“I fear this isn’t just about the low end, mid and higher registers seem to benefit a lot from the enhanced circuitry. I’d love to directly A/B some of my patterns and kits on both machines.”
while he prefers the AK, i seem to prefer the A4,
based on youtube videos, that’s why i asked if there are more
links to comparisons with same patches.
Well, SOS is citing Elektron in that article; they point out this “enhanced bass” in the FAQ on the AK. I have the AK, haven’t heard the A4 in person. I can tell you that the AK can get very… funky. (I believe you’re using this word to describe crunchy/distorted/lo-fi, etc.)
As per the differences in the various demos/videos/etc. some of that could just be that the workflow of the two instruments leads to different results. When I sit down at a keyboard, I think of melody; for a groovebox (which is what the A4 seems like to me–and I don’t mean that dismissively, because it is a glorious and comprehensive groovebox that would put the grooveboxes of yore to shame), I think more about rhythms, arpeggiated sequences, and patterns. That’s not always true, but I do think that the two workflows lead to different results. So I think the fundamental question is workflow.
Again, I cannot speak to the A4 directly, but the bass on the AK is very, very deep. I sometimes wonder if I should have gotten the A4 (especially, as has been noted, because of the way that OB mitigates the benefit of the individual outs), but the joystick is an insanely useful performance/creation tool, and I needed a solid keyboard in my lineup, so I don’t ponder it too often. But it’s not because of sonic differences in the two machines; it’s because the workflow of the A4 might be better suited to my tastes.
@ avantronica
thanks a lot for givin me a push towards A4 
@ chm_jaques
thank you, that’s also intersting infos
still i wish there were any direct audio comparisons,
maybe just because snowcrash usually knows what
he’s talking about
aaaahhhhh, very difficult decision …
If space, mobility and price is no issue and you don’t already have a midi controller you like then probably go for AK. I had a controller that I liked, value the mobility and have issues with space so I of course got the A4.
thanks,
again i have to say i am NOT talking about hardware differences
(or which bass is deeper)
the only issue for me at the moment is
the general sound difference which besides
me at least snowcrash seems to hear.
are there any more direct comparisons with the same patches on both machines?
does one of you have both and could load 3 or 4 patches in both machines?
that would be so great to hear
sorry if i’m so picky about that, but it’s a lot of money
and i really would love to be sure, that it is NOT like
i and snowcrash seem to hear…
There is virtually no difference in sound except for the very minor bass boost that has been mentioned (which most contend even that is negligible). Many people who have used/owned/own both have said such. IMO you’re wasting your time if the sound difference is playing any part in decision making because by all accounts it’s a non-issue.
The AK has a lot more going for it as far as workflow. The only reasons to consider an A4 over the AK IMO is if you don’t have the extra money or room for an AK. Also as an AK owner I do wish sometimes I could just lay in bed and play on my AK like I do with my AR, but it’s too big for that. In a world where money didn’t matter I’d also have an A4 hooked to a Q-Nexus or CME X-key for such times.
This seems spot on to me. The keyboard lends itself to a play style in which the velocity effect is less calculated and rarely maxed out in succession. Likewise, the joystick lends itself to a sound in which modulation is used to add some flair towards the end of bars and so on, where the sequencer style of the A4 spreads modulation out more.
It’s quite difficult to play the AK live and provide a tightly timed, wide variation to your sound. The A4 forces you right into the mindset of sequencing in which p-locking many parameters is perfectly natural.
Of course you can use the AK as if it were an A4… so these are not downsides, rather another avenue to use it. I often sequence my AK with the Octatrack and p-locking the joystick parameters is a very different experience.
More AK positives:
All that said I believe Elektron are open about how the Keys was an afterthought once the A4 became a success. It could be argued that the interface of the A4 provides “truer” access to the “synthesis philosophy” that went into designing the sound engine from the drawing board. I think most AK users might conclude that had the synth been designed for the keys from the start, it would have some different elements including a better screen and more knobs.
I feel it too, master…
Sorry too, did’t get your point well enough …
My point was that I think it’s not easy to use files from soundcloud for such a comparison. You just can’t tell how the files have been made. So I think, searching the internet is wasting your precious time, if there is not a well respected guy comparing them directly and I think that doesn’t exist yet.
The A4/AK is an analog synth after all. I personally would not expect to copy a program/patch from one machine to the other and get an identical sound - very close yes, but not identical. The referenced soundcloud examples are okay but no proof. In the case of A4/AK I would expect that some minor tweaking could get both to the same point - exception, the bass boost.
If you have very sensitive ears and there might be something that makes a difference for you, I think the only way to find out, is to try an A/B test yourself. At least afterwards you can believe in your own results.
I got the A4 first. Then I was kinda talked into getting the AK and also use it as a midi keyboard.
Now I cant sell the A4 so I kept both.
Polygamy is an expensive lifestyle, but also quite nice
lucky you;)
maybe you are the one who wants to post a comparison?
same patches on both machines,
so we finally KNOW
mille grazie!
Not too long ago, a couple/few months, a member of Elektron staff, Simon I think, posted a direct comparison of the A4 and Keys and the difference was huge across the whole frequency spectrum, quite a few people commented on the difference.
You’re right, it does sound more hi-fi and cleaner with a bit more presence and body, I was so glad I’d bought the Four as I prefer a more warm, fuzzy and organic sound which doesn’t push its way to the front of a mix.
Sorry. I can’t remember the thread title/type or even which sub-forum, the A4 and AK should really be under one roof…
EDIT
D’oh! I’ve just seen your link to Simon’s examples, never mind.
so you heard the same… interesting…
you’d regard the differences THAT big?
please can somebody put up a few more files?
cuckoo ?
krusty4president?
For a tweak of the same circuitry? I’d say so.
Had an A4 for a year then upgraded to the AK for the past year. So, thoughts:
I think they sound identical to be honest.
The keys, while nice, are an octave to short for me (hence looking to sell)
I actually found making patterns and things with just the A4 a marginally more enjoyable experience. To explain - the AK is my main board now so I’m having to use it in midi modes as well as synth mode. It’s not a huge issue, like one button press but it’s much easier to take the A4 downstairs to jam on the couch and you’re forced to think ahead minus the keys.
Joystick is nice - from memory the sequencer doesn’t pick up the movements. Not sure if this could be changed, hope so as it’d make variation a little easier.
Big dial for running through menus is very handy!
A few extra buttons to speed up workflow are useful but not deal breakers.
It really comes down to whether 37 keys is enough IMO. I thought it would be but unfortunately not.