A4 MKII / AR MKII Combo vs Modular Eurorack System

The Lounge Other Gear
#7

I started dabbling in semi-modular synths over a year ago with two Pittsburgh Lifeform SV-1 blackboxes, and later also invested in a Roland SYSTEM-1m and Arturia MiniBrute 2. In addition, before COVID-19, I started attending a local modular group meetup to learn more about the setups, modules, and workflow. Overall, I have been very impressed and excited by the experience. Softube Modular has also been helpful to gain a better understanding of modular setups. The said actions were done to help prepare me for the potential transition, but I can see the value in possibly starting with a few modules, and expanding over time.

The $5k amount is based on modules I would more than likely purchase eventually, but additional rack space will be available for future decisions. I initially planned to purchase a Pittsburgh EP-270 case, but after planning various setups on Modular Grid that decision was changed to the EP-420. Only about 65% I expected to initially fill. I could lower the cost by using all or some of the semi-modular synths I presently own, but cost is not my main concern.

#8

Sounds like you’re eurorack ready. :smiley:

Seriously though, sounds like you know what you’re getting into. I quickly realised I didn’t and although I didn’t end up losing anything but a bit of my time (bought everything 2nd hand and sold approx at cost), it’s not like the eurorack journey was a huge learning experience for me either. For the life of me, I couldn’t see a day would come when I would be able to do full songs or performances on my eurorack system. Nine months gave me a couple of decent drones that were a bit out of tune. Good riddance, eurorack! :rofl:

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#9

That is a concern of mine as well. I can see it being a huge workflow success or an utter failure for me, but at least I could move forward without regret either way if I dive in 100%.

I always felt the Elektron devices are tailor made for Techno and other electronic music genres. The A4 / AR combo should work well for my needs as an inclusive setup. However, I would miss out the many effect and modulation modules available in the modular world. Once again, combing both options seems on paper to be the best path forward, but I am resistant and prefer either one or the other. LOL.

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#10

Thanks for the input. I plan to reread the manuals for the A4 and AR over the weekend, and watch a few tutorials again (it’s been a while) to see how I can replicate the output of a few modular modules within the two devices.

#11

I think one of the main advantages you’d have with eurorack is that your instruments will be more ‘sensitive’ and responsive.

I had the A4 MK2 and AR MK2 and found it odd that most parameters need to register a fast knob movement in order to get the actual parameter to change.

Making subtle movements on the machine will not register changes sometimes…

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#12

Thanks for the replies. Here’s an update.

I am still considering the available options between a modular system, A4/AR combo, just an A4, or nothing at all. However, further research and advice on various modular system configurations and modules was needed.

After several iterations, I finally decided on a tentative modular system, with a Pittsburgh Modular STRUCTURE EP-420 eurorack case, that includes the use of a Maschine+, MC-707, TR-8S or SP-16 for drums and, if needed, other instruments. Below is the setup:

All of the aforementioned drum devices have stereo inputs in order to run the main output of the modular system’s mixer. To start, I would only purchase enough to consume about 2/3rds of the EP-420’s capacity, and modify or complete the remaining purchases after some experience has been gained.

As opposed to an alternative to the A4 and AR, the goal shifted to primarily a 4 or more synth voice modular system in lieu of an A4 or dedicated individual synths. However, if I purchase an A4, the AR is still under consideration due to workflow continuity, but its not a high priority.

I briefly owned a AR MKI, but sold it and can’t remember much about using the device. However, after reading the manuals and reviews, I do find both instruments interesting.

With that said, in regards to which direction I pursue, it’s pretty much a toss-up at this time, but it’s leaning towards to the modular direction.

#13

You said earlier that money is not your main concern but if it’s a toss-up or you’re indeed considering getting nothing at all, why not give Analog Four a shot before going all in? With modular, in particular, one always runs the risk of thinking they’re only one or two more modules away from a perfect setup - and that’s time away from actually making music.

Although getting good mileage out of the A4 does require commitment (as in the time you spend learning it), it’s immediate enough to give you an idea what might be possible with it. Plus I think you said you’re doing this for a side project so I assume you’re not in a hurry here? Almost 8k (plus the case) of projected cost for the full / ”finished” rack vs. about 1k for the A4 mk2… :grimacing:

There are a lot of ”golden” rules when it comes to modular and I’m sure you’ve come across many of them but one that struck me after I was already out of modular was that one shouldn’t design their modular to do more or less the same a standalone box can already do. Not saying you’re doing that here as I don’t know many of the modules in your projected system, just repeating what wiser people than me have said before.

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#14

Cost is not a major concern, but being unproductive is the main issue I possibly foresee. I understand that it will take time to adjust to a new modular workflow, and that is fine. However, I do not want it to collect dust, and revert to my old methods. Otherwise, I would just sell off the components. Unlike individual synths or drum machines that go unused for weeks, I will generally rotate them into my main studio at some point, but I doubt that would ever transpire with a modular system.

If I do go the modular route, my goal is to spend about $5k to initially to setup the modular system (about 2/3rds of the case capacity), and add new modules, based on the modular grid plan with more than likely several modifications, throughout next year. Overall, the initial purchase should provide enough options to complete songs, and once and for all, fully make a determination whether or not modular is for me as a long-term workflow.

Nevertheless , you do make excellent points about the A4. Combining an A4 with a drum machine or groovebox would be an awesome small setup for Techno music. Also, the A4 provides the convenience factor to work on more than one song at a time, and save ideas for future use. I am more certain that the A4 would be a positive gain to my Techno music efforts than a modular system. Although the risk is higher, in regards to wasted time and cash, I feel that if I do not give a modular system a full go that it will continue to be a question mark in my mind that goes unanswered. I can see myself absolutely loving or hating it, but not much in-between.

Oddly, my initial plan was to purchase an A4 and AR. But, as I waited over the holidays, it also appeared to be good timing to try a modular system, as it is has been under consideration for over 18 months now.

Thanks for the reply!

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#15

If you go modular, buy a shared system. Modular is a huge time suck. Id rather have a rytm mk2 and a machinedrum mk2 UW. Sample some synths into those and you are off.

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#16

In my opinion, going eurorack to make techno is like using dynamite to kill a fly. There are many machines capable of getting you there that are way less complicated and less costly. I know you said cost isn’t an issue, and it sounds like you just really want to go into modular. So, of that’s the case, go nuts – someone has to keep the economy rolling.

I agree with other comments about getting a more complete system to start. Otherwise, you’re going to spend a ton of time sourcing modules. Erica Synths has a Techno System, I think. Other than that, have you considered a Hydrasynth? It seems to be very versatile and with a lot of modulation options, it can sort of give you results like a modular synth.

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#17

I’ve spent the last 2 years trying to put the best Techno set up together. Went through most of the Elektron boxes, then got into semi modular and Eurorack, even bought a Push 2 and went fully in the box.
I’ve ended up with an A4, Moog Dfam and Synth Tech 350 and a Roland TR8s. For me this is the perfect workflow balance. I can noodle around patching and getting experimental or I can just get on down and make some straight up Techno.
I loved the full on eurorack phase but ended up spending more time researching and buying/selling modules than making music!

#18

Interesting opinion. Most modular systems are built around a few voices, which is all that is needed for Techno, and provide a vast range of modulation capabilities. A modular system is obviously not the cheapest option, but a wall of eurorack cases is not required as well. However, at least for me, Techno is the only music genre I personally create where I would use a modular system. For other music genres, I am pretty happy with the workflow presently in place.

I fully agree that there are various machines and options available to optimize a productive studio environment. Since returning to an out-of-the-box workflow about three years ago, I somewhat created a modern-day version of my studio setup from the early 90’s with various multiple synths, drum machines, hardware effects, etc. It’s been a positive change, but still curious to if there is a better workflow for Techno.

A few months ago the desktop version of Hydrasynth was on my radar, but opted to purchase an Argon8m. With the exception of a Cobalt8m that is on backorder, I do not plan to purchase any individual synths in 2021. Only the aforementioned Elektron products or modular stuff are of interest to me.

Thanks for the reply. It’s appreciated.

#19

Nice feedback! I feel like I am on a similar journey to discover what works best for me, in light of space and other constraints, at this point in time.

It’s funny that the Moog DFAM is one of the items you settled on in your studio. I also considered a DFAM, Subharmonicon, and two Moog Mother-32s as an another option, but was it eliminated when the focus shifted to a full modular system. Nevertheless, Moog is developing some nice products at the moment.

Thanks for responding!

#20

@ReverseGroove you’ve probably checked the techno setup thread already but just out of curiosity I filtered it with the word ”eurorack”. Maybe another resource to get ideas from? Not a whole lot of eurorack in that thread, actually. Maybe goes to show many people agree with what @cold_fashioned said about killing flies with dynamite. :slightly_smiling_face:

https://www.elektronauts.com/search?context=topic&context_id=133812&q=Eurorack&skip_context=false

As well as the whole thread.

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#21

Thanks alot! I briefly reviewed the thread earlier today, but will take a look at the specific ones with euroracks.

#22

Thank you to everyone that replied!

The final verdict is that I purchased the Analog Four Black MKII and Analog Rytm Black MKII combo. It was the more practical choice, and will help minimize the space consumed on a new 4-tiered A-frame stand dedicated to the equipment used for Techno music.

However, I also purchased a Pittsburgh Modular EP-420 eurorack case, and will commence adding new modules later this year. In the meantime, I will continue to play with virtual modular setups (i.e., Softube Modular, VCV, Reaktor Blocks, etc.) to better understand the needs the modular system will fulfill.

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#23

:+1: This is basically the direction I decided to pursue!

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#24

very cool! glad to hear it :slight_smile: I’m sure a super productive time ahead !

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#25

Reaktor is infinite. Started a side project a few years ago where I use Reaktor for everything (standalone, no other daws). That’s been a far more satisfying journey than my heavy modular period was. I think you made the right call.

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#26

I am rediscovering Reaktor, since I bought it over the most recent holiday sale. I used Reaktor Sessions years ago, which was basically the free player version of today with a price tag, but did not use it much. I mainly purchased it due to the possibility of additional Reaktor ensembles being revised for Maschine+ compatibility, but its been fun to mess around with on the PC.

Lots of power, and fun. Integrating Reaktor with the Elektron devices via Overbridge will be awesome.