A4 MKII / AR MKII Combo vs Modular Eurorack System

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

At this time, I am debating whether to purchase an Elektron Analog Four MK II / Analog Rytm MKII combo or drop approximately $5k to build a starter modular eurorack system. My primary goal is to create a separate small music setup for underground Ambient and Detroit Techno music that will be used in lieu of my main studio. I am presently leaning towards the modular eurorack system, but wanted to seek feedback from others that have worked with both setups or similar.

With that said, although the more expensive option, the modular eurorack system seems to excel at immediate exploration, and weird sounds. I love of the idea of creating a music environment of my own design, and creative needs. However, the lack of instant recall, and other modern features might become a drag over time, but so is my main studio for other reasons.

The A4/AR combo is about the closest solution, with the flexibility I seeek, without going full modular. Nevertheless, I will miss out on the customization of adding modules that suite my personal needs and interest. Furthermore, the menu diving required to dig deep into the full feature set does not excite me, but I probably could deal with it.

Lastly, I understand that I can combine the two options, but I would rather go with one or the other to limit space consumption and prevent a lack of focus.

Thanks in advance for any feedback or recommendations.

#2

If the Elektron setup will not meet your stated personal needs, you should get the modular system.

Why can’t you make techno with your existing gear?

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#3

For your stated aim of Detroit Ambient the two boxes would serve you well. Flexibility throughout to utilise external FX if needed, or perhaps integrate a small modular system to start. Further, Overbridge to bring in/modulate/multi-track with whatever you want from the digital world.

The Analogs are immediate as sin. You turn them on, and you’re away. Menu diving is minimal as on these boxes - a couple taps here and there. Overbridge again also a major benefit if you want to quick edit modulation options.

I wouldn’t look to the two analogs as an endpoint but a base upon which you then build your modular bridge (even though you say you don’t want both Elektron and modular systems).

And besides, both machines are capable of creating very weird sounds. You won’t be at a loss for that.

The Rytm can sample your A4 so there’s that, but the only thing u may run into is limited voice options on the A4 - obviously only 4, or depending on how you use it could be taken up by one chordal pad. And they’re all the same.

The advantage of modular I guess is mixing and matching your voices - but the Rytm does come with quite a few also and can be resampled for lead sounds (and anything else from the outside world).

I guess it’s like, do you want a thing your constantly buying selling researching trading upgrading adding to, or do you just want two straight up boxes to get on with the job?

Worst case you can always sell em and go modular, Elektrons are easy to flip.

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#4

This struck to me as a key point in your text. Many here have gone down that road, only to realize we do exactly that - love the idea of designing and building our very own instrument.

Don’t get me wrong, many people also succeed in that. However, for some it becomes an endless path of GAS and having to learn each and every module and functionality. If that sounds like fun to you and you more or less know what you’re getting into (you didn’t say if you have experience with modular or how well you know the basics of synthesis), then go to it.

I daresay, if you’ve never played with modular before, dropping 5k on a eurorack system in a short period of time will get you knee deep in mud (that’s what it felt like to me anyway, after about 3k). Persistence and patience (I had neither, sold the whole system after nine months of getting my first modules) get you out and lead to something beautiful, I’m sure but don’t expect the results to come fast.

What I would do is get a pair of Elektron mk1s, maybe for around 1400€ second hand. You can always upgrade to mk2s or indeed go the eurorack route if the Elektron boxes don’t get you where you wanted to go.

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#5

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#6

It is not that I can’t, I actually use it for various music genres. One of the issues is that I usually need to work on more than one project at a time in different genres. Reconfiguring things can be pain, as I usually prefer to finish a project before starting another, but that is not always an option.

The Techno stuff is for a side project, and I have been trying various smaller setups from gear not setup in the main studio. It been an improvement, as I do not believe that most Techno music requires a lot of instruments. However, there is always room for improvement, and I have been debating going down this path of either a full modular setup or the dual Elektrons for quite some time.

I considered using the Maschine+ and MC-707 for the Techno projects, but will more than likely leave them in the main studio for R&B, Hip Hop, and Pop projects.

#7

I started dabbling in semi-modular synths over a year ago with two Pittsburgh Lifeform SV-1 blackboxes, and later also invested in a Roland SYSTEM-1m and Arturia MiniBrute 2. In addition, before COVID-19, I started attending a local modular group meetup to learn more about the setups, modules, and workflow. Overall, I have been very impressed and excited by the experience. Softube Modular has also been helpful to gain a better understanding of modular setups. The said actions were done to help prepare me for the potential transition, but I can see the value in possibly starting with a few modules, and expanding over time.

The $5k amount is based on modules I would more than likely purchase eventually, but additional rack space will be available for future decisions. I initially planned to purchase a Pittsburgh EP-270 case, but after planning various setups on Modular Grid that decision was changed to the EP-420. Only about 65% I expected to initially fill. I could lower the cost by using all or some of the semi-modular synths I presently own, but cost is not my main concern.

#8

Sounds like you’re eurorack ready. :smiley:

Seriously though, sounds like you know what you’re getting into. I quickly realised I didn’t and although I didn’t end up losing anything but a bit of my time (bought everything 2nd hand and sold approx at cost), it’s not like the eurorack journey was a huge learning experience for me either. For the life of me, I couldn’t see a day would come when I would be able to do full songs or performances on my eurorack system. Nine months gave me a couple of decent drones that were a bit out of tune. Good riddance, eurorack! :rofl:

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#9

That is a concern of mine as well. I can see it being a huge workflow success or an utter failure for me, but at least I could move forward without regret either way if I dive in 100%.

I always felt the Elektron devices are tailor made for Techno and other electronic music genres. The A4 / AR combo should work well for my needs as an inclusive setup. However, I would miss out the many effect and modulation modules available in the modular world. Once again, combing both options seems on paper to be the best path forward, but I am resistant and prefer either one or the other. LOL.

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#10

Thanks for the input. I plan to reread the manuals for the A4 and AR over the weekend, and watch a few tutorials again (it’s been a while) to see how I can replicate the output of a few modular modules within the two devices.

#11

I think one of the main advantages you’d have with eurorack is that your instruments will be more ‘sensitive’ and responsive.

I had the A4 MK2 and AR MK2 and found it odd that most parameters need to register a fast knob movement in order to get the actual parameter to change.

Making subtle movements on the machine will not register changes sometimes…

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#12

Thanks for the replies. Here’s an update.

I am still considering the available options between a modular system, A4/AR combo, just an A4, or nothing at all. However, further research and advice on various modular system configurations and modules was needed.

After several iterations, I finally decided on a tentative modular system, with a Pittsburgh Modular STRUCTURE EP-420 eurorack case, that includes the use of a Maschine+, MC-707, TR-8S or SP-16 for drums and, if needed, other instruments. Below is the setup:

All of the aforementioned drum devices have stereo inputs in order to run the main output of the modular system’s mixer. To start, I would only purchase enough to consume about 2/3rds of the EP-420’s capacity, and modify or complete the remaining purchases after some experience has been gained.

As opposed to an alternative to the A4 and AR, the goal shifted to primarily a 4 or more synth voice modular system in lieu of an A4 or dedicated individual synths. However, if I purchase an A4, the AR is still under consideration due to workflow continuity, but its not a high priority.

I briefly owned a AR MKI, but sold it and can’t remember much about using the device. However, after reading the manuals and reviews, I do find both instruments interesting.

With that said, in regards to which direction I pursue, it’s pretty much a toss-up at this time, but it’s leaning towards to the modular direction.

#13

You said earlier that money is not your main concern but if it’s a toss-up or you’re indeed considering getting nothing at all, why not give Analog Four a shot before going all in? With modular, in particular, one always runs the risk of thinking they’re only one or two more modules away from a perfect setup - and that’s time away from actually making music.

Although getting good mileage out of the A4 does require commitment (as in the time you spend learning it), it’s immediate enough to give you an idea what might be possible with it. Plus I think you said you’re doing this for a side project so I assume you’re not in a hurry here? Almost 8k (plus the case) of projected cost for the full / ”finished” rack vs. about 1k for the A4 mk2… :grimacing:

There are a lot of ”golden” rules when it comes to modular and I’m sure you’ve come across many of them but one that struck me after I was already out of modular was that one shouldn’t design their modular to do more or less the same a standalone box can already do. Not saying you’re doing that here as I don’t know many of the modules in your projected system, just repeating what wiser people than me have said before.

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#14

Cost is not a major concern, but being unproductive is the main issue I possibly foresee. I understand that it will take time to adjust to a new modular workflow, and that is fine. However, I do not want it to collect dust, and revert to my old methods. Otherwise, I would just sell off the components. Unlike individual synths or drum machines that go unused for weeks, I will generally rotate them into my main studio at some point, but I doubt that would ever transpire with a modular system.

If I do go the modular route, my goal is to spend about $5k to initially to setup the modular system (about 2/3rds of the case capacity), and add new modules, based on the modular grid plan with more than likely several modifications, throughout next year. Overall, the initial purchase should provide enough options to complete songs, and once and for all, fully make a determination whether or not modular is for me as a long-term workflow.

Nevertheless , you do make excellent points about the A4. Combining an A4 with a drum machine or groovebox would be an awesome small setup for Techno music. Also, the A4 provides the convenience factor to work on more than one song at a time, and save ideas for future use. I am more certain that the A4 would be a positive gain to my Techno music efforts than a modular system. Although the risk is higher, in regards to wasted time and cash, I feel that if I do not give a modular system a full go that it will continue to be a question mark in my mind that goes unanswered. I can see myself absolutely loving or hating it, but not much in-between.

Oddly, my initial plan was to purchase an A4 and AR. But, as I waited over the holidays, it also appeared to be good timing to try a modular system, as it is has been under consideration for over 18 months now.

Thanks for the reply!

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#15

If you go modular, buy a shared system. Modular is a huge time suck. Id rather have a rytm mk2 and a machinedrum mk2 UW. Sample some synths into those and you are off.

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#16

In my opinion, going eurorack to make techno is like using dynamite to kill a fly. There are many machines capable of getting you there that are way less complicated and less costly. I know you said cost isn’t an issue, and it sounds like you just really want to go into modular. So, of that’s the case, go nuts – someone has to keep the economy rolling.

I agree with other comments about getting a more complete system to start. Otherwise, you’re going to spend a ton of time sourcing modules. Erica Synths has a Techno System, I think. Other than that, have you considered a Hydrasynth? It seems to be very versatile and with a lot of modulation options, it can sort of give you results like a modular synth.

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#17

I’ve spent the last 2 years trying to put the best Techno set up together. Went through most of the Elektron boxes, then got into semi modular and Eurorack, even bought a Push 2 and went fully in the box.
I’ve ended up with an A4, Moog Dfam and Synth Tech 350 and a Roland TR8s. For me this is the perfect workflow balance. I can noodle around patching and getting experimental or I can just get on down and make some straight up Techno.
I loved the full on eurorack phase but ended up spending more time researching and buying/selling modules than making music!

#18

Interesting opinion. Most modular systems are built around a few voices, which is all that is needed for Techno, and provide a vast range of modulation capabilities. A modular system is obviously not the cheapest option, but a wall of eurorack cases is not required as well. However, at least for me, Techno is the only music genre I personally create where I would use a modular system. For other music genres, I am pretty happy with the workflow presently in place.

I fully agree that there are various machines and options available to optimize a productive studio environment. Since returning to an out-of-the-box workflow about three years ago, I somewhat created a modern-day version of my studio setup from the early 90’s with various multiple synths, drum machines, hardware effects, etc. It’s been a positive change, but still curious to if there is a better workflow for Techno.

A few months ago the desktop version of Hydrasynth was on my radar, but opted to purchase an Argon8m. With the exception of a Cobalt8m that is on backorder, I do not plan to purchase any individual synths in 2021. Only the aforementioned Elektron products or modular stuff are of interest to me.

Thanks for the reply. It’s appreciated.

#19

Nice feedback! I feel like I am on a similar journey to discover what works best for me, in light of space and other constraints, at this point in time.

It’s funny that the Moog DFAM is one of the items you settled on in your studio. I also considered a DFAM, Subharmonicon, and two Moog Mother-32s as an another option, but was it eliminated when the focus shifted to a full modular system. Nevertheless, Moog is developing some nice products at the moment.

Thanks for responding!

#20

@ReverseGroove you’ve probably checked the techno setup thread already but just out of curiosity I filtered it with the word ”eurorack”. Maybe another resource to get ideas from? Not a whole lot of eurorack in that thread, actually. Maybe goes to show many people agree with what @cold_fashioned said about killing flies with dynamite. :slightly_smiling_face:

https://www.elektronauts.com/search?context=topic&context_id=133812&q=Eurorack&skip_context=false

As well as the whole thread.

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